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I want to know why the AI sometimes drives like they don’t know where the driver is. I was on the cooldown lap and an AI drove in to me whilst I mounted an apex at the chicane in IMS

 

Might want to ask Lance Stroll that

 

While I think that you do have a point regarding that 20 years have passed and hardware has moved on, I think there is a bit of stagnation in the game side of things regarding this.

While the CPUs have improved both in terms of IPC and speeds, the biggest thing is the increase of cores and threads per unit. And it feels like games, specially sims, have failed to take advantage of it, for whatever reasons it may be (justified or not, I cannot say, I'm not knowledgeable enough in terms of software development).

IIRC there isn't a single simracing title on the market that can take advantage of all cores of a CPU, the workload is not divided in enough threads for fully exploiting the capabilities of present day hardware. This is not exclusive to simracing though: most games out there don't do this either, and this is why single core perfomance (and overclocking) are king when it comes to gaming perfomance of a PC, which is also why you never see hardware guides for gaming recommending an i7 or an i9 in the Intel side of things: you are more than covered with the K version of an i5, and you won't see improvements unless the game in question has multithreading truly implemented (again IIRC, some titles of the Battlefield franchise were the only ones taking advantage of this).

This is also why, until AMD released the Ryzen 5, all discussions about best CPU in gaming gravitated towards Intel, no matter how good AMD did in multithreading environments. Yes, way better in terms of encoding audio and video, compressing files, and all the stuff that is truly multithreaded. But when it came to gaming, AMD usually lost the edge against Intel because of the latter's single core punch, plus the overclocking possibilities. And they regained that edge back with the Alder Lake series. Remains to be seen if AMD fights back again in the single core side of things with the Ryzen 7 series.

It's probable (cannot say with certainty) that iRacing has managed to put AI on a separate thread and have an exclusive core manage it, meaning that it can advance the quality of the simulation without interfering with what it has had before, because it simply used hardware capability that has always been there, just sitting and unused.

We would probably see a big leap in terms of quality if next gen sim titles could be programmed in a way that all the data could be separated in as multiple threads as possible, improving the complexity of all the models involved in real time. But I guess it's much easier said than done.

 

Yeah I understand what you are trying to suggest.
To try to explain why its almost impossible for a racing game to use same physics (and specially the TM) for both player and AI bots - today!
And I know too that not many racing games use more than a few cores.
But instead of explaining this issue away I just found this graphic showing how the single core performance have raised from 2005 to 2021.
From 500 to 3500 in benchmark score is pretty much me think
So I dont think that iRacing need to use some extra cores just to be able to offer same physics and TM in player and AI cars.

Oh and good old NR2003 was even launced some years before 2005
Evolution of Single-threaded x86 CPU Performance

 

I'm not sure how true this is now, consoles and PC's have many cores now and it's a common development practice. Older engines likely won't support it, but I'd be super confident Madness Engine does. I'm sure older engines like RaceRoom aren't which is why they hit CPU bottlenecks.

 

The Seta tyre model only uses 4 cores for physics (one per tyre) and I don't think the AI physics get to use any more than those same 4 cores. Which is why the AI and player physics break down when you run too many AI...

 

If you have more than 4 cores why would you run A.i. physics on the same cores as the tyres? (Maybe just a hangover from when ME was first released a few years back). I've never noticed physics breakdown in AMS2, I have in AC which is known to have CPU bottlenecks. I read that it's single thread heavy.

 

To my knowledge, it is not true that the iRacing's AI uses the same physics as human drivers. From what data do you claim that?

Fellow iRacing user, I challenge you to setup an AI race in an oval short track and try to wreck the car in front of you with a bump and run maneuver. Good luck derailing that train.

As I've said many times in this forum, I still think iRacing AI is the best AI in the market. AMS2 is not in a bad spot though. AI has been the Achilles heal of modern racing sims. AMS2 AI can be improved a lot, of course (so iRacing AI, btw), but I think it is more like a matter of "refinement of behavior", not physics. I don't care the laws of physics they follow, I want them to behave in a realistic way. Of course this means mimicking things implemented in the model the human follows, such as drafting, aeropush and so on and so forth.

 

Are you sure you mean this?
Because I would evaluate it as what is normally called mutually exclusive.

 

Another example: Beam.NG (from their September update):

In order to improve performance, we have added simplified traffic versions for several cars, which come with reduced physics details, which will help with performance without sacrificing the visual quality.
​

As @CrimsonEminence explains above, a similar process is used in AMS 2 where certain elements of the physics are simplified. According to many who use iRacing, the very impressive AI is not using the same physics, at least for collisions. We already discussed the disappointing AI in AC (and ACC to perhaps a lesser extent) that shares physics with the player.

If using player physics solved all the AI issues we love to hate, every sim would do it. If using player physics somehow informed the AI where and how to drive--?!?!??!?!?!? How is this connected in any way to the "Intelligence" part of AI? The equivalent would be to say everyone who plays the most realistic car online in multiplayer suddenly can drive like Lewis Hamilton, but when we all use the "worst" car we drive like amateurs.

Sorry, but I still completely disagree with your logic.

AI programming is and always will be a trade-off. Everything from graphics levels of details, physics levels of details, the allowable number of AI, the sophistication of their pathfinding and race craft and other factors needs to be traded off against the total computing power available. That total is best used giving the player the most accurate and best possible experience. There is not sufficient computing resources to do it all, so every dev will make trade-offs as they see fit. There is no free lunch and AI using the player physics is not a panacea nor is it even related to the intelligence of the AI.

 

Do you honestly think I would use time to argue against such non sense?
Because the first sentence here completely contradicts everybody in this thread arguing that it is impossible to have the same physics and TM for human and bots.
And the rest of the quote is just a bunch of "strawman" argumentations.

 

Already got told of twice, but won’t do it again. My mistake

 

You're not allone, mate.

 

Thanks. Happy I didn’t get banned like the time when I did some self promotion during a QnA with an ex F1 driver

 

Physics developers have stated that running advanced physical modeling of just a single tire, can bring super high-end PCs to their knees. Of course, Racing-sim physics and tire models are not nearly that advanced but . . . it's not hard to imagine surpassing limitations pretty quickly, especially considering lower-spec systems.

 

Friend, I will not even answer these things anymore, even because people appear here wanting to teach life lessons without even knowing the other side, all because of a game, settings are personal, what is good for one may be bad for another, but what point is that you can put the best FFB configuration in Need for Speed that I will continue to find the physics bad, this is my point of view in relation to some cars np AMS2, you can disagree or not but never come to want to teach someone a lesson without even knowing her ok? thanks.

 

If you don’t find help in the forum about what you say, find it in your way. Nobody is stopping you