Automobilista 2 V1.5.5.0, Le Mans & Endurance Pack Pt1 RELEASED - Now Updated to V1.5.5.6

Not to rain on anyone's parade but if i were you guys, i wouldn't expect those red hot news before march.

 

We are Reiza fans and we are able to deal with patience...

I also think there will be no dev update before end of Feb.

 

Just to jump in on the "brake boosting" or as I call it "super braking" of the AI this has been in the Sim for a long time (quick check I first reported it in 2020), unfortunately I'm not in any position to provide specific video evidence only perceptions of what I have seen time & time again.

It really is one of those things you notice when you race the AI so much, like when you pass them and they drop off to a set distance behind you, it happens, it's there and it's very obvious in certain situations.

As others and myself have continually stated, the AI have improved dramatically and to a very good level but please let's not gloss over the issues that still remain, I know Renato doesn't

 

That's little bit of conjecture, isn't it? That skill very might be how likely the AI will decide to fall back and trail the player rather then trying to stay side by side and try to battle and how good it is at it.

Honestly, I doubt there is some kind of special cheat coding, that would be a mess to mantain for all those classes that are in the game.

Also, ofc, there is an overtake routine in the AI coding, the same how there is a 'enter' pit routine, or 'avoid obstacle' routine. Where the AI decision logic has to be different, because of the situation it is in. But that doesn't mean that the different routine frees the AI from its physics model. Just that it suddenly might do things, it will not do in 'normal race pace routine', like deviate from the racing line, using 100% of its grip.

I'm not saying the behavior doesn't exist, but I think it is artifact of how the AI works and some parameters that needs tuning. It looks like to me, that they can have more longitudinal grip than the player, so they are able to brake later than the player, and can also accelerate faster than the player. Considering how many parameters affect grip of the player (tyre status, temperature, setup, track wetness), it is a difficult thing to balance properly. A small change in the wrong direction, and you suddenly have AI that brakes 50m before the braking point, or doesn't accelerate out of the corner.

AI also gets affected by draft... so it is then no issue for them to pull alongside you, and outbrake you into the corner... Just little bit of difference in grip here goes a long way.. You don't need special cheat routines.

In my experience, the moment you manage to pull yourself out of the draft, you're safe. They will not gain magic pace, just becasue you're ahead.

AI also doesn't know how to defend, and leaves the door open most of the time. This is why, when you have 2 AI with similar pace, you see them exchanging position all the time. The rear one has draft, pull alongside (because the door is open), and overtakes... Now the other one has draft, and the situation repeats... Which kinda suggest there isn't any cheat coding, because it is kinda what you expect to happen if you have two cars with similar pace, with drivers that cannot defend... The more highspeed the track is, the more of the behaviour you'll see (which also makes sense).

AI magically gaining/loosing huge amount a pace, and a gap forming withing a lap or two, that would suggest a 'cheat' routine to me.

AI is also fairly consisten in their race pace. A car that is fast on the first lap is generally fast throughout the race. So unless you have car out of position becasue of incident, you rarely see a big pace difference between cars that are close together. So you rarely have the situation where the catching car should pass and then dissapear in the distance.

Also, Reiza is not sitting idle on this, and basically every patch has notes to AI balancing. Tbh, I have hard time thinking of other sim dev where so much effort is spent in every patch for AI work.

 

Well, it might not be a "cheat" routine per se, and some of what you say may be the key, but I am only describing the effect which I think needs further refinement as its the most frustrating part of racing the AI for me at least. Thanks for your considered response though.

 

I have not played

 

Regarding "Super Braking"... I'm playing ACC, trying to get good and it. It is a very competitive game. Most of the casual gamers I play actually do "super braking" all the time.
It looks like once you get skilled enough things that look supernatural become easy.
So I think maybe the AI is a bit imbalance but I doubt they do anything impossible.

 

So did a few lap with the Porsche GT3 gen 2, put in a 1:56.5 on Nürburgring GP chicane.

It really is a big difference with this tread update. Before I never had issues braking hard and yanking the wheel in a corner, getting the car to grip very easily. Now it's a lot more nervous, I loose the rear, the fronts just don't grip as well, but it communicates to me a lot clearer too.

It's twitchy to drive but I never feel like i'm left confused, the car communicates very well and I don't seem to get moments wondering how I got away with something.

I'm really happy about this update! I really hope this tread update comes to the rest of the cars, my main concern has always been the retro F1 cars.

Great work Reiza!

 

Folks, we as users do not have access to the code, therefore we can only judge what we witness.

Discussing if there is a "cheat code" or if the AI behaviour is just due to bad parameters (which is probably the case) is irrelevant.

The fact is the AI behaviour is unrealistically inconsistent in a plethora of combinations of track, car and corners. The detailed inconsistencies are reported on the AI feedback thread.

Those issues are easily spotted if you race them long enough, to the point you can memorize their behaviour pattern and know exactly how each and every single bot in the race will behave in corner X, regardless of their individual traits, skills, aggression. It is a global issue with the AI.

Renato stated multiple times it is a matter of fine tuning parameters. Given the enormous amount of car+track+corner+weather combinations, take a seat because it is going to take forever depending on the combos you are interested in.

 

In my experience this is true.
It's bad in the sense that it makes them predictable and I know exactly where I can get guaranteed overtakes, but at the same time it's good because I know how to avoid crashes with them (eg: some corners they'll try to take the racing line at any cost and will run me offtrack if I attempt to overtake them, so in those places it's better to back off and wait until the next corner).
Imo AMS2's AI is good in terms of pace but they lack intelligence and common sense, and they don't have the ability to adapt.

 

Totally agree, tried the 992 yesterday on Hockenheim and Turn one is a whole different beast now.
No longer can you slam onto the break and steer to the right to drift into the apex.

 

How did you find the tyre temps out of curiosity? I turned off TC and was sliding the 992 through the corners at Nurburgring Veedol and the rear tyres stayed solidly in the green. Sure, they wore down quickly but the temps remained stable and solidly in the green. Seemed a bit odd. And yet, the car felt much better with these changes than previously in terms of believable grip loss.

 

I'm very happy with the new tyres updates.
With the new update I went from regretting to have purchased the DLC 2020-2022 pack to now looking forward getting the endurance and Le Mans DLC.
BUT
I still feel that sliding is a bit too easy to control and on top of that you don't get much speed loss of you slip the car.

I'm actually ok with letient sliding. I don't want this game to be exactly like the other two big sims. But it looks to me that the car just gets away with no obvious speed loss.
In most other sims when the rear goes too far the first thing I think is "oh well there goes my lap time". Your delta goes strawberry and all you can do is to remember not to overdrive next time.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it does not look like sliding makes the car much slower. Which is not really right if we want to play ATMS2 like a sim.

Anyway I am really looking forward this new physics on cars that have low or no aero at all the formula trainer, F Vee and old cars.

 

I think the big thing is that you can slide it for a little while before the tyre temps go up. I haven’t felt like they’re too easy when comparing to IRL and the loss of sliding might only be felt after a little while

 

Yeah some cars really suffered from that drifting into apex and it got to the point that you abused it because there was no risk of making any mistakes by it. So happy its been fixed from what I've been testing out.

 

I was a bit confused about the update, is it confirmed that these changes will come to the other cars too?

 

They only changed cars with slicks and wet weather tyres so maybe

 

That's how real racing works...people fight back after being passed, especially if they got passed due to a small error on their part. Fortunately, the AI has this programming base--someone was thinking when they developed it. Of course, the devil is always in the details.

As you know, this is not equivalent to a cheat or boost code, but is as I described part of AI behaviour and awareness.

Let's be honest, the AI are not wizards with long-term race-length strategies and emotions. They do their thing (again, not completely robotically due to programming for skills and errors) until they encounter other vehicles, at which point they do their thing again (defend, try to pass, move into a less conservative mode, etc., just like real racers would). This simple approach sometimes results in "digital" racing...passing, then resuming "normal" operations, then getting passed again, then becoming more assertive and passing back....rinse and repeat. Have seen this in real racing (where passing is actually a normal thing, not F1) many times...just not so metronomic.

The AI are becoming less less robotic and predictable over time. Like the physics, it's a WIP because for every skill or capability they receive or that gets enhanced, another one could falter. There is no inherent intelligence in them--if there was, they'd be able to manoeuvre in the pits at limited speeds without a problem!

(Also for you @Mazdaspeed and @MarcG.)

(And, didn't read entire thread before replying, so thanks also for detailed reply from @Matus Celko.)

 

Some of us know, and I already said above it had been confirmed by Reiza (beyond to me, personally, as an inside tester for almost a decade).

What people are describing in terms of the AI behaviour is all "true," though it often has a trigger caused by the player The only part I objected to was an authoritative statement that boost code should be removed--as if it was a known/accepted fact that it existed. Because it doesn't.

 

Tire temps for the GT3 Gen2 are interesting to me. Within the hud they stay green for a wide range, from 60 - over 90 degree celsius. But what is the ideal temp? I find them a little more unpredictable over 90, but it‘s not to bad.