Automobilista 2 V1.5.5.0, Le Mans & Endurance Pack Pt1 RELEASED - Now Updated to V1.5.5.6

Mods, feel free to delete this if this thread is getting to "ranty."

Specifics to each tire and tire model also play a huge factor. A modern Pirelli "formula" tire will require different inputs to an IndyCar Firestone, a bias-ply vintage tire, etc. I know our driver in GR Cup commented a lot about how different the Continentals were in our series compared to the Pirelli's they used in Trans-Am.

I found this clip from a Suellio Alemeida video quite interesting where they were comparing Alberto Naska's Euro Nascar footage to Suellio's Radical footage. To summarize the whole video, Alberto echoed many real driver's comments that iRacing was much more unforgiving than the real car, but Suellio's short-term, "flash heating" technique did work in certain IRL series that had sensitive tires. What I found interesting was how Alberto was completely comfortable with pushing the car and countersteering, where Suellio, who started in iRacing before going to real racing, was afraid of pushing the car into oversteering. Some of that is down to turning off the basic instinct of "self-preservation," but I do think early driving habits and iRacing quirks play a part.

I can't speak for which is the most realistic, given I don't have $300k to throw at a GR Cup or Trans-Am season. What I can talk about is the attitude of the cars I see trackside as a USAC photographer compared to what I see "trackside" in replays using VR.

I will leave you with this clip of (not McKenna) Seamus Burke hooning a Mk II Escort on tarmac with a gravel tire and still being 2nd in class during this stage.

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxK9Oc3wslGj3q8PLey657uh7ley_dfzeg?si=PLYhQkioncIErnmY

 

It's kind of similar to why my forehand doesn't produce the same result as Federer's, even though I am studying videos of his playing and doing my best to copy his every move. And that's real life.

Studying a video of a real car and then trying to understand it and translate it to real-world performance--if we got to drive the same car in the same conditions--would be equally challenging, even if we were a racing expert.

Now try studying the same on-board video and translating it to performance while using a simulator that by definition is not a 1:1 translation of reality. Then add-in lack of VR, lack of top-flight motion rig-induced accurate g-forces, lack of equivalent race craft/skill to the driver in the video...and it is clear we are getting farther and farther away from any form of objective comparison or assessment.

Please be happy that there are devs obsessing over every detail and trying their best to recreate reality as best as possible for our enjoyment. And enjoy.

Over time, each of us gains experience in real race cars, real road cars, or even other sims, that will help us to better appreciate the efforts put in to improve the quality, accuracy and "immersion" of our favourite sims. And, sometimes, to be able better see where shortcuts and hacks have occurred that are not realistic or the best that could be done with the resources available. But, even then (e.g., EA WRC that I love to hate), the publishers likely made decisions that attempted to make the game more fun or more playable or more profitable (so the studio is still around to do the next title)--they weren't sitting around the board table saying let's build an accurate simulator and then purposely not use it well. Less serious/hard core games sell far better than the ones striving for full simulation accuracy, so should we be surprised that most devs don't strive for this easier target and go for/build what is more popular? Some of us remember the days when we did not have multiple titles to choose from and argue about...we should not forget how blessed we are.

 

STAGINGTEST 5 MINUTES AGO!!!!!

 

2016 Delta wing with the Skyactiv Mazda, Nissan and Honda Ligiers, Ford and Chevy Daytona Prototypes would be amazing and fit in with Reiza more obscure content

 

Oh yeah it is no dig at Reiza at all. We can all see how passionate they are and that is why I like them.
But it shows how little we as ordinary non racing people know and how much we assume. For example when I said there is too much sliding or such I came to that conclusion by looking at races and onboards because I never sat in such racecars.
It shows how much discussion is generated from people who have no experience.
I guess we as non racing drivers can only know if it is roughly in the right ballpark by looking at onboards and races.
I certainly know we are in fortunate times with simulators (for example when you look at footage of DCS then it looks very realistic and looks more realistic than multimillion dollar movies).
I have heard (or maybe I forgot) very little how Reiza likes to work. Does Reiza work with real racing drivers who give them feedback (I know PC did that)?
If this posts are considered inappropriate for this thread or to offtopic than please say so.

 

Still today the Delta would be way ahead of such old technology

 

This was my favorite version. Love how absurd looking it was lol

 

Oh man you have an absurd bad taste
Your "Delta Wing" is so ugly that I dont even want a picture on my HD
The HD will probably be spoiled

ByTheWay: Even this is unable to make it more ugly.

 

Reiza! When a historical Tracks Part3 with magny cours. i need to replicate the crash of shumy and Ayrton

 

The last two laps looks like AMS 2 AI Race

 

To my limited experience with driving race cars and karts (under racing conditions and according set up) you can induce over and understeer and both together deliberately. Which explains why you see cars a lot in reality - that have been set up to achieve max grip (which is main goal) - sliding and made sliding, if the driver wishes so, or is forced to correct a loose rear. Though, when driving close to the edge of tire grip (on the fastest line) all vehicles (in race trim) become pretty "snappy". Which comes by logic and physics:

The more you optimise the grip the narrower your peak slip window gets (i.e. a peakier max grip curve). You can move a stock street car around Nordschleife relatively safe with quite an amount of slip and yaw angle, but with a car in race trim that becomes literally blade running.

IMO, it's the biggest challenge for each sim to simulate this thin line between slip that is still controllable (depending on the driver skill) and a realistic sudden "loosing the car" moment, that happens (realistically) so quickly that even pro drivers can't catch it any more in reality as in the simulation. In so far I believe the term "to be or not to be on rails" doesn't fully explain the tricky fact, that one and the same car can change from one state to another surprisingly quick.

You can tweak e.g. Assetto Corsa manually to replicate a real car's behaviour on track pretty closely. But it's still an approximation. Me personally, I wasn't capable to set up AC so close to reality (also comparing IRL telemetry data to sim telemetry data) that the car in the sim behaved as "nervous/snappy" as in reality when driving in a competitive manner.

I think it's a tough design-decision for each sim developer of how to do such approximation. The closer you simulate "reality" the more you may compromise a reasonable sim driving experience. "Loosing control" in reality happens this quick that even fast clocked consumer sims physic engines may not be capable to calculate fast enough. Left aside the question if input / output latencies might be the bigger technical hurdle. I also assume that the lack of G-forces in sims (that make us react quicker in reality as our visual sense can) are eventually the biggest limiting factor.

Though, to my personal taste AMS2 leans (currently) still a bit too much to the "forgiving" side. Admittedly, it's a lot of fun to throw the cars around corners (while realistic tank slappers can happen nevertheless!) but I'd prefer a "sharper", more challenging driving "feel" - without loosing too much of the nice AMS2 specific touch of still being in control. In other word's, I hope for even more elaborated physics for this narrow slip window at the limit.

EDIT: Not to forget that in reality as in simulation, it's a deliberate decision what you are aiming for: The more elaborated the race car (and the tighter the top lap times) the more the driver must rather drive "along" the optimal "learned, trained, predictive" narrow driving line than to rely on his intuitive/reactive - thus joyful - driving skills. When more money and competition is involved, fun and joy diminishes. There is a reason why slower car leagues often grant a much more satisfying racing experience, with greater action, and a far more interesting and eventfull progression of the race.

 

A must-have car for any sim, fight me

 

The thing is, all the sims are so far away from driving an actual car we might as well debate which shooter has the most accurate AK47. If you (in general) ever get the chance to drive a real car at speed on a track, you will find your simracing senses completely overwhelmed. The forces that only came out of the wheel in front of you now suddenly come from everywhere: the pedals, the seat, the harnas, plus the cockpit is very loud and the sound doesn't respond to a volume knob. Also the G-forces knock your arms, legs and head around and you lack the glorious smell of rubber, oil and on some days: hamburgers, onions and beer.

In a sim all these forces need to be channeled into the only thing able to communicate these forces: the wheel (and optionally: shakers and full motion rigs), and different sims use different ways to communicate these forces. This is why, in my opinion, no two sims will feel the same. What matters in my personal opinion is whether or not the driving aspect of the sim, so ignoring FFB, makes sense compared to the real car, meaning: are the steering and pedal inputs the same, are the cornering speeds similar in similar conditions and does the car handle the same as in reality.

 

Go in the setup menu and there is a setting for auto shifts that overrides the general game setting.

 

Lesson for Michael but like a couple of years back, when young Senna wasn't respecting Lauda, it didn't work well

 

This is simply not true, and isn't supported by any data i have seen. if anything, i've seen the opposite, racing slicks are more progressive when starting and stopping slides, due to their construction and smooth thread. Real life examples of the opposite include F1 cars getting more snappy when they went to Grooved tires, and drifters overwhelmingly prefering slicks, if they are allowed to use them.

Road car tires are designed to be durable, and to have low rolling noise and resistance. Racing tires are designed to be grippy, consistent, and provide good feedback.

Its about time to put yet another simracing myth to bed.

 

I am very interested in this. Would you share/link any data supporting this?
I ask because all the data/evidences I am able to find actually state the opposite.
Not that slick tyres are not allowed to drift or to allow grip also at high slip angles, but that slick tyres are more prone to suddenly lose grip than road tyres, allowing less slip angles.
As far as I am aware of, drifters prefer not to use slick tyres because they are great drifters when cold, but as they heat up the given grip is so high that not only it becomes more difficult to lose traction, but it also becomes harmful on clutch/semishafts.

I love AMS2 to every single bit, but I also have the feeling that tyre grip is not yet 100% dialled-in (just my taste probably).
I feel that tyres lose grip quite easily (e.g. no throtlle, neutral, 50 or 60 kph, just wave left right 3-4 times and the backend comes around) but yet it allows grip/traction even when straight grip is lost.

Huge steps forward were performed in the last 2 updates, but still when I tried 1.5.5.2 I stomp on the throttle of the 992gt3 without TC engaged, coming out of turn 2-3 at Imola, and I was hoping to feel "rubber" and the backend glued to tarmac, until it came loose, more or less suddenly.
I am not expecting to "die" iR style, but at least I should feel the urge to raise the foot, and therefore lose 3-4 tenths.
Instead the backed came loose, about 5-10° and I strightenend the steering wheel and came out of turn 3 like a rocket.

I am by no means an alien, but I managed ot have 10th time TT gt3 Imola....and in that lap I did a 20 meters sideways powerslide (i'd say 15-20 °) out of "variante alta), slide started when I landed from the inside curb which I took quite hard in second gear. I thought my lap was ruined, but I decided (against my guts) to keep the foot down, and I just power.slided out of that.

Hope this makes sense, I just wanted to share my minor thoughts on a wonderflu platform Reiza gifted to us, and still they are crafting day-by-day.

 

Slicks are not used in D1 because they want to keep the costs down. Still they use whatever they can as close to road legal slicks as possible. Grip is not an issue, they need grip, and they also need the ply factor from racing tires to help the transient states. I've had access to tire data from GT3 teams even (which unfortunately i cannot share, believe me, i would) that indeed supports that most tires they produce these days are actually bias ply constructed tires, with a radial belt thread on them, in order to make them progressive and communicative, by having stiffer sidewalls than your regular road tire, wich has much softer sidewalls due to noise and confort. These softer sidewalls will stretch and bend a lot before the tire suddenly "snaps" due the loss of grip,even possibly introducing chatter, which is highly undesirable for racing, and specially drifting.

Now sure, people are free to believe me, or not, but think about it, why are not drift guys using handme down eco tires? So yes, i reiterate, simracing myths that need to be put to bed.

 

Not. The. Delta. Wing!!

 

Could not agree more. AMS 2 leans to the very communicative side of things, which I personally prefer. Luckily the FFB can be filtered/dulled with custom files and lots of other settings can be "turned down" if that's what one prefers and what works better for the brain/hand-eye co-ordination process.