Automobilista 2 V1.5 Physics Development Update

keep coping homod go play ac if you want real experience

 

That is the best you got. I know you can do better

 

Point made, but now is the time to hit the eject button, I'd say. You're definitely done here.

Hey, It's Friday. Still time to forget all about this over a beer. Sounds like a much better use of energy to me

 

Its quite funny but also pretty revealing to look at this lengty "discussion".
Because its more or less 1 single person who suddenly get the hatred of the forum majority because...
Yeah because he does express another oppinion and experience than the majority.
And the majority are all very satisfied Reiza customers of the 1.5 update - who more or less again and again does convince each other that such oppinions should be excluded from the forum.
Hehe or at least this 1 person should go somewhere else.

They expres the wanted exclusion by prowdly announcing that they will ignore him.
But the hatred is so huge that its not enough to just ignore this person - but people use a lot of energy and posts to really show that they absolutely have ignored him.
I really have!

And why do I say this is both revealing and funny?
Because if people was really mentally convinced that how the cars does behave after this 1.5 upd is the right behaviour - then they would be pretty relaxed just because 1(one) person does express another oppinion.
Yes if people were really convinced then this single heretical guy wouldnt matter - at all.

ByTheWay: I use the word "heretical" because its mainly in religious communities such goofy uber-reactions does happen. And more or less mainly when they feel attacked on some indisputable truth.
But in a socalled ongoing development of a commercial racing game then pr definition such an indisputable thingy does not exist.

 

well, that was ridiculous. well done everyone.

 

I think a very important point to remember is that, in addition to personal tastes and preferences,
each company has different contracts signed and different levels of access to cars and their details, which will obviously generate different experiences between them in different simulators, so i believe that the best thing to do, is to choose your favorite cars and drive them in the simulator that you like the most, as there is no point in wanting to plan a certain level of quality very similar between all of them, as this is practically impossible to do, the comparison is valid of course, not least because i believe we all want a better and more complete simulation level in all of them, but even so, there's no point in fighting about it, because it won't lead anywhere.

 

So you are basically saying that everyone in this forum actually thinks the physics after update 1.5 is bad?
No offense, but coming to that conclusion because a lot of people disagree with someone saying that exact thing absolutely baffling, feels more like you are trying to convince yourself you are actually right and everyone else is wrong.

 

OK.


Anyways here are my critisms (based off of person enjoyment, not realism unless stated otherwise) of the cars changed in 1.5 physics updates:

Caterhams: while they're better, just still don't feel like they're 100% there. The pointiness is still there especially with the 620R.

F-V10 Gen 2: went from one of my favorites to one that I just couldn't get the hang of. I think it was one of the cars the pountiness of the previous model "added" instead of "subtracted" in terms of personal enjoyment.

C3-R: I do feel you can catch some larger slides in game than ones you could irl. Not 100% sure as I haven't looked at any real life footage but there have been times where I felt I should have lost it.

Chevy Corvette C8 Street Car: another car I have been having a hard time getting on with. Of all cars I feel it changed the least, though that may be because I rarely drove it in AMS 2 beforehand.

That isn't the end of my critisms, but the ones I feel confident enough talking about and the ones solely focused on physics. How many times does this "you're not allowed to criticize AMS 2 on Reiza Fourms" myth need to be debunked before people shut up about it?

We're adults here, we know we are better than this. You know damn well you've seen and even participated in critism of this sim even from "fanboys" like me.

Everyone has the right to their opinion, but not everyone has to like them. It can be very overwhelming having a controversial opinion, being disliked bombed, it sucks! And there is a genuine conversation to be had here, but it isn't a shield to hide behind.

When I got flack for defending Reiza not increasing the car count with some bad arguments or being too sarcastic to some random guy did it suck? Yeah it did. Did I feel my opinion was being excluded? Absolutely. But I didn't complain about it, I slept and felt better the next day. It was like nothing even happened in the first place. Better things to do in life than complain about people disagreeing with you and being upfront about that. Only you can control what you say, if you feel like your getting heated chances are you're gonna dig yourself in a hole and look like a jack***. At that point its always better to just step away.

 

I hope you are joking - because otherwise something is slightly wrong with your reasoning - or lets call it logic.

 

I´d agree there are about a dozen cars that need more work including the above. That´s doable considering the massive update we just got and it is easier to focus on a handful than the whole roster.

 

Maybe Reiza should set the default in-car camera settings (movement section) to more AC,ACC style settings, cause many new drivers think that the physics are strange because of lateral forces, shakes and headmovement. It´cool to be flexible but give the ppl conservative settings to start from, cause they can´t fix it to their liking without knowledge. Even GM is struggeling with this. He thinks he is seeing the car behaviour but he sees more the head physics etc. judging them as slidey or floaty. Helped me also a lot to fully understand the exact settings i need for may personal best feeling. The video of Tarmac Terrorist helped me a lot:

So imo Reiza scares more ppl off with "extreme" settings and should set everything to industry standard. MAYBE they should add some PRESEST for the cam settings to quick change and give beginners a good starting point. Beeing supportive at this points don´t cost a lot of afford and could change the perception of the sim for many.

 

It is not about opinions, it is about manners.

By the way: the only difference among you and the other guy is that you write better English.

 

I'm a bit worried we're repeating the same mistakes as other sim fanbases in regards to feedback. I would like to think we can be civil while discussing physics preferences instead of resorting to whatever has been going on in this thread the past few days.

There's some things that changed that I don't prefer, but there's a lot of things that changed that I enjoy. Can we please not resort to name calling, one-up manship, or general toxicity?

 

Yeah really good argumentation.
You are really good at it.

ByTheWay: Often the next really good argument on this level is Go drive another racing game because you dont belong here.

 

In the own dev update it's written that the physics are still going to get updates, also there are still some cars that haven't got a FFB update.

I for one have been enjoying the update and the worst offenders in my case feel much better. The BMW2002 doesn't feel like an underweight Chevy Nova, the Caterhams don't want to assassinate you by pressing 30% throttle, the Opala Old Stock doesn't have one wheel going left and the other right, among others that have improved IMHO.

Been a fun read so far that's for sure.

 

For some reason I haven't tested any Opala neither in the beta nor in the release. I will.

 

Camera settings could potentially be part of the problem, but I've always found GM's criticisms to rather contradictory.

"Everything feels like it's in slow motion... AMS2 fans must need easily catchable cars to drive... It feels to floaty, no indication of what the tire was doing... (About the RX cars) These are too erratic... It's too easy to drive in this game" *hits wall*

I don't know how the cars can be in slow motion, too easy, yet too erratic at the same time.

Edit: sidenote to GM, not all of us automatically praise Reiza for every change or piece of content. I've been very vocal in the beta forums about Hockenheim RX not having the correct elevation or about areas of the RX cars that didn't seem believable. While this forum can get toxic, the last few pages of arguments shows that we don't always take agree that every change is "the fix that will save AMS2."

My personal opinion:

Myself as well as some others enjoyed the previous physics not because they were "easy to catch," but more because the optimal driving style required a very busy approach with inputs at the limit. I would say, far from the generic, vague complaint of being "floaty." During previous builds since launch there were changes that I initially disliked that I ended up understanding after I had given time re-learn what the physics wanted. The last Gen Formula Classics are a good example: initially allowed an overly aggressive driving style at launch that got paired back to more sensible values over time. I enjoyed the OG build of those cars, but I fully acknowledge it wasn't the most accurate in hindsight. Enjoyment and realism are two different things. No sim is going to be 100% accurate, we can have preferences. I would hope we'd all be open minded, but simultaneously able to give constructive criticism.

A much better source for constructive criticism:

When describing 1.5 changes in beta testing to friends, before I ever watched these videos, I described the tire updates as such: "it requires less busy inputs at, or above, the limit. There's less randomness or oscillations to the amount of peak grip at any moment. The slip angle curve feels less forgiving, but it feels more communicative at how much grip is available. My micro-corrections are maybe 30% of 1.4.8, but there's still room to play at the limit."

Watch Nils' video, and I'd argue, his observations are really close to my own. While I respect people like Jimmy Broadbent, Random Callsign, and GM, Nils was much more thorough in his criticism and could accurately describe what changes had been made.

Storytime:

What I'm worried that we're repeating is the mistakes iRacing and it's fanbase made in regards to physics changes. Billy Strange had mentioned he worked with iRacing for a while to try to bring the Sprint cars closer to how his real cars felt. In the process, driveline elasticity was supposed to be introduced, and it was tested by E-Sports players and top competitors. Most of them, who had trained their skills on older builds of the game complained that they didn't like how it felt. Despite it technically being closer values to real data, the iRacing community rejected it because it forced them to relearn techniques. To repeat, iRacing refused to implement a better physics system because it didn't fit the current game meta.

All of this to say, I'm a bit worried that we're judging the 1.5 changes off of the previous meta. I personally enjoyed the old 911 RSR physics, but if an owner of the real car gave valid criticism to how the car feels in real life, I would be open to changing it to be more accurate. At the same time, I still want cars to be enjoyable to drive. I've been endlessly critical of the C8 road car because it doesn't feel good IMHO. I would like it to be better, but it's not a big deal if it's not my favorite car. Reiza have been fairly open about sweeping physics changes if something isn't quite right. Meanwhile, SMS left known issues in their game for years, we're rather fortunate.

My point is, give the update time, give it a thorough testing, feel free to comment on what you like or dislike, but be aware of our own personal biases. You can still learn and have fun in any sim. DiRT Rally wasn't the peak of simulation, but it got me started and I became a better driver even from it's limited simulation value. AMS2 made me better in iRacing, and drifting in AC made me better in AMS2, even if the physics are very different. Just have fun, it's not like we're real drivers with the risk of actual harm.

 

In the L98T on SPA Historic without chicane the difference is that on 1.5 upd the car is 7 sec slower.
And feels rather "dull" and smoothed out in the reactions with about similiar setup.
Not much feeling of connection to tarmac.

EDIT: Added laptime from both with and without chicane.

 

IIRC you don’t use an FFB wheel, but how then do you feel like the car isn’t connected? I’m genuinely interested and not trying to be rude