Automobilista 2 V1.5 Physics Development Update

Also in AMS2 there is a point where if you are above a certain speed based on the corner radius the steering angle doesn't make you steer much: notice that the car will not go straight though. It will just wash out dramatically but it will still steer somewhat.
What you say that nothing happens is not physically correct if that is what happens in your benchmark sim. Even at the highest slippage value, tires are still exerting quite a bit of lateral force, not zero force.
Here is the graph. You can see that force does not get even close to zero

 

Also worth of note in the first graph is how 20% braking is tanking the lateral force by 50% for high slip angles which is usually from turn in onwards.
Which is self-explanatory as to why ACC's heavy braking into corners technique is out of the real world physics.

 

Interesting, never seen those graphs before. Thanks!

 

It is most prominent on the Porsches when you reduce LSD preload. What happens is that you can literally yaw the car inside corners. Only other games that ever had this behaviour is Dirt Rally 2.0 and Forza H. series and it appears also very fake there.

 

double post

 

I don#t drive GT3 in ACC but both my prefered rides, the M2 TCX and 718 GT4 will not react well to hard into corner braking. To get them around apeax you need to apply throttle instead.

 

Not a specialist of GT4s in ACC, but GT3s clearly need to be driven that way. Not only my experience though, it's enough to see the inputs from any of the fast streamers to see they get into corners with far more than 20% brake input.

 

I don't know what is going on with math in 1.5.3, but now I can feel the tyres loosing and regaining grip like a car with rubber tyres does much better than any sim I played.

And I like It. A lot. And can sometimes avoid walls when I do stupid mistakes.

 

I think that was the case with 1.505 update. I think that excessive turn in feeling is reduced a lot in 1.5.3 but I've only driven about six cars so far.

 

So been driving even more now with simucube 2 sport and default ffb profile, F3, historic formula, GT3 etc.

I'm actually very impressed overall. I really feel like this ffb update should been tied to the big 1.5 update we had before because now it feels more complete overall.

I feel like there is more information regarding corner balance, something that i was missing before. The wheel is a lot less twitch and active, before it was like an overload of information and it just made it feel a bit muddy. Now the wheel is a lot less active and that is more aligned with other sims so this is really nice to see!

Also I'm very happy that there has been aero tweaks, finally you can actually lose the rear end, something that was very hard if not impossible before. This is very very good news!

The only thing that still bugs me is that the inital turn in grip seems too high, im often able to turn in later than usual and just quickly snap the wheel 45 degrees and it almost always grips without understeering or losing the rear, obviously no racing driver but not seen this in the other sims.

But overall this is great work! I firmly believe it's not the physics that people complain about its the ffb! But whatever has been done now is a step in the right direction.

Now im off to play some more! Happy racing!

 

I agree regarding the "overgrip" of the fronts... I mean, if you try a bit hard to heat the tires in a formation lap, you probably end up spinning or losing control. The car should go understeer in my opinion and experience with steady throttle and locking the steering wheel.
Anyhow I just did a couple of hotlaps in gt3 and m3 and the driving at the limits threshold is really fantastic!
Wonderful job guys.
I just think that maybe the tires parameters regarding the tread could be adjusted a bit, but probably it's only personal preferences or accomodations to other experiences.
Overall, I am enjoying a ton!

Thank you Reiza!

 

I just think you slow down more than you think you do. Maybe it's the opposite thing when people used to post to steam in AC forums saying "the cars lose control at whatever speed" - their inexperience means they go faster than they think, whereas your experience means you slow down instead of hitting the wall.

Although TBH when tkracer said "every car" it's like when my wife says "we never go out" and my first thought is to say to her "I'm not even married - who let you in? what are you doing in my post?" and she says "I know, I'm just a hypothetical construct you invented to make a point" ok, so I tell her "Well we went out the other week" - and lose the argument because her hyperbole is just venting her feelings not an objective fact to be debunked and I'm sleeping on the couch. That's all I ever interpret "every car does x" as being - someone venting on the forum.

But, if we try to take it seriously I can trivially jump in one of the caterhams fly down into copse or the end of club straight at Silverstone national and when I turn the wheel, without slowing the car, it just ploughs off the track into the wall.

I can post a video if you like but I don't believe you can't recreate that nor that the post earlier was actually being serious that every car does one particular thing. If you genuinely can't recreate understeer shout and I'll create one.

 

You are totally right.

I mean, I mainly drive porsche gt3r, porsche cup(s), old m3, sauber c9.
The sauber actually understeers a lot at low speed.
I personally was referring to the gt3r and the cup. On those I find it a bit risky to wave heavily left-right in a formation lap to heat the tires because no matter what throttle position or speed I am, I induce the rear-end to step out. I "feel" that in this behavior cars should be more prone to understeer, but again this is a peculiarity, and probably a lot depending on car setup.
I just compared a real life footage of a porsche cup at spa, against a hotlap a couple years ago I recorded in iR, and the same hotlap today in AMS2.
Mind blowing.

 

There does seem to be a feeling of overgrip at the fronts on initial turn in, but only under certain conditions. For example, when I drive laps in formula cars or prototypes at Donington, most of the lap feels good and the car behaves predictably. However, there is that fast right hander at the bottom of the Craner Curves, there I can turn in early with tremendous speed and the car has an unnatural feeling of grip. I don't know if that's realistic or not since I've never driven at Donington in real life in any car, but it does feel out of place not only to other sims, but also to AMS2 under different conditions. Overall, the driving experience is great.

 

To me, the biggest influence on turn-in is braking force. Turn-in aggression in AMS2 totally depends on the forward weight transfer when braking / trail-braking. In high compression-engine scenarios, just engine-braking may have extra influence on turn-in.

AMS2 tire modeling may do this (better / worse) than other titles although, rF2 does to some extent as well. The larger question is: is it realistic? I think it makes total sense in terms of physics but I'm unsure if it's a bit too aggressive in AMS2, or its more a matter of other titles having a bit too little turn-in under heavy braking. Perhaps the ultimate solution lies somewhere between them.

We should also consider that Reiza has some people involved that have actual track / racing experience in RL so, it may be a matter of fine-tuning things in the long run. There's certainly a lot of finessing to be done in terms of linking tire-grip loss to effective audio effects, that alone could make a big difference in our perception of grip to slip transitions.

 

I'm still waiting to find a car in the game that has an unnatural feeling of (too much) grip, especially at lower speeds in tight corners (i.e., mechanical grip only, no aero). Not a troll, but rather a serious comment. I think most vehicles in the game are pretty decent, but any that I have encountered that are not it is for the opposite reason--too little grip.

 

Agree on all of the above, but I do think it's fine tuning. Some vehicles are "better" at finding grip during a neutral cornering stance than others, so it means whatever "it" is related to braking and weight shift impacts on tire grip can be adjusted

The companion audio effects are also very important!

 

Related to the general "grip" topic.

In the last days I saw several comments (e.g. on yesterday's Dan Suzuki youtube stream) talking about "slidey behavior" or "usual AMS2 feeling" (referring to cars sliding).
(btw Dan loved the game under every aspect)

Also a friend of mine (old timer iRacer) after trying out 1.5.3 said that it is very immersive, very alive, but “cars step out the rear too easily and too often” (obviously he was comparing against his experience and habits).
I decided then to make a small test to check the consistency and depth of the physical and tires model.

Porsche cup 3.8l (991.1), time trial at SPA (so to have exactly same conditions).

First video: 1 lap default setup (LSD set at 100Nm preload and 4 clutches)

Second video: 1 lap with LSD preload at 90Nm and 2 clutches

In both cases I was pushing my best.
The difference in feel of the car and also in visual representation of the cornering and braking dynamics is astonishing.
Also my friend after seeing the second video said “that’s iRacing!”

I am more and more convinced that Reiza gave in our hands a wonderful motorsport simulation sandbox in which it is somehow possible to recreate the driving experience we find more satisfying and/or realistic, based on our perceptions and likings.

Once again, great job.

 

Out of curiosity what difference in lap time did you find?

 

This is one of the most important things in AMS2 imo, the diff makes such a massive difference in car behaviour it's insane, if you feel like a car understeers or oversteers too easily it's always worth it to take a look at the diff, this was one of the big differences when we were discussing the behaviour of the Group C's in the 1.5.0.5.

Car setups are a baseline, it's worth to learn a thing or two to make you feel more confortable with the car