Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

Yeah Sebring T1 in just about every class I've tried does that weird wiggle spin.

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my lengthy message. I really appreciate that! Without further ado, let me come to the point (it's late over here, zzzz ):

In regard to video number one: I think we may have different opinions. Maybe that's the limit given the environment of the game engine or the limits of programming resources, and I can accept that. However, in racing, there is always the possibility that a car slows down a tiny bit unexpectedly, which the AI here handled superbly. It didn't have problems adjusting to my speed and braking appropriately, as you can see, but decided to go for an inappropriate overtaking move, leaving the track entirely, only to rejoin the track and hit me in the right rear. I kept my pace and my position well over a couple of laps without any overtaking by either me or the AI. That is actually the bit I love most about racing: the struggle to get close to the car in front over dozens of laps, only to finally make that one overtaking maneuver. That is why I enjoy racing in the midfield a lot...

Concerning the second video: What stood out to me was you saying, "That is not right or ideal; it is just how it is." That is exactly why I posted this, hoping that the way it is now will be improved in the future. In all of these videos, I was matching the race pace. Reducing the AI strength would result in me being faster than them and then, over the course of a race, just pulling away from them.

The third video is entirely AI vs. AI; sorry for not making that clear in my original post. It highlights the bugged AI well, and these issues correlate with those in videos one and two.

Now, after writing all this, I feel you may have just talked me into driving a couple of laps on AMS2 and trying out the low-aggression setting .

I really hope work will be put into this, and I hope it gets resolved. Thank you again, and cheers!

 

Good that this is being worked on.

In the second video it seems like you can exploit him by using your own slipstream to attract him off the racing line going in to a corner (e.g. into Ascari or Parabolica). You get back to the outside in time but he remains on the inside, even though no pass is possible. They need to give up on the slipstream and get back on the racing line before the corner.

 

Perfect!!!

 

That is looking glorious ! I am sure there will be many further tweaks to it as i would expect the following car to be slightly faster in it's reaction times to get into the draft sooner, but already this is looking magnificent and adds so much to the feeling of AI drivers reacting to each other's presence on track in realistic way.

 

@Renato Simioni
It's clear that different governing bodies around the world (and sometimes within the same country) have different rulings and wordings for overtaking.
Some good examples provided by @Al_Pesto in the post below:
Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

In the AMS2-verse, what would be the rules that we (and the AI) should be abiding and adjudicating by?
Would you be willing to have this officially written down and understood (maybe have it added to the 1st post of this thread), this would really help us to judge and raise issues as we find them and feel they contravene the rules as Reiza intended.
I would hope that this would mean we could more reliably and objectively police ourselves, and then you'd hopefully save some of your time longer term with only needing to get involved with the genuine cases where the AI have operated outside of your expectations.

All the best
Andy

 

@Renato Simioni nothing constructive to add from me, but just a thanks for engaging with the thread, us grumblers and taking the time to showcase and implement the improvements.

 

First of all, a big THANK YOU. Thank you very much for your time and your effort. I understand the philosophy of not overwhelming users with a ton of adjustable settings, risking that the game experience suffers and that people eventually become even more unhappy than they would have been without these possibilities. Having said that, I would L O V E to see these new parameters you mentioned for the AI settings implemented, specifically the AI Traction and AI Brake Skill scalars. This sounds like the perfect way of giving everyone what they want without jeopardizing what is already running well. I'm also a strong supporter of your idea of introducing separate Aggression Sliders for AI vs. AI and AI vs. Player. Being the natural tinkerer that I am, I would love to try out different settings and spend some serious time fine-tuning the AI. That sounds both fun and very satisfying .

Again, thank you for your efforts, and I'm now really looking forward to 1.7.x.

 

First of all, I would like to congratulate you and the Reiza team for the incredible progress made recently on AI development.

This latest improvement shown is a very important step forward: AI cars are now able to understand when the human driver is trying to break the tow and will adjust their line to stay in the slipstream. This is exactly the kind of intelligent behaviour we want to see, and it brings the single player experience closer and closer to racing against real opponents.

However, before this latest development, I posted two videos highlighting another aspect that I think is still worth looking at: the difference in draft/slipstream effectiveness between the human player and the AI, especially with open-wheel cars.

In my first video, I am driving the car (onboard view with the yellow gloves). Coming from quite far behind before Eau Rouge, I can gain a significant amount of ground on the AI ahead simply by using the slipstream.

On the following lap, the situation is reversed: the AI is behind me (blue gloves) and actually closer than I was in the previous lap. The AI is directly in my wake, but the benefit it gets from the draft does not seem to be comparable to the advantage I had in the same situation.

For clarityI am not using any custom AI files and the test was done with the default setup. The effect is particularly noticeable with Formula cars, especially F3, and on tracks where slipstream plays a major role such as Interlagos, Spa-Francorchamps, Monza etc...

In an ideal world — and I think we are actually very close to it with the latest AI improvements — I would love to see a better balance:

• Slightly reduce the draft benefit received by the human player
• Slightly increase the draft benefit received by the AI

The goal would simply be a more equal and realistic balance between both sides.
Because even if the AI is now smart enough to actively look for the draft, this behaviour will have limited impact if the actual slipstream effect is not strong enough for the AI compared to the human player.

There is also another important point: this difference in draft effectiveness can affect how players evaluate their own pace and choose the AI strength.

For example, when a player is following a group of cars, they may benefit from a stronger slipstream effect than the AI, which can artificially hide some weaknesses in their pace. Then, when they are suddenly in clean air, they may realize that their true pace is not as strong as they thought.

A more balanced Human/AI draft model would therefore not only improve racing, but also help players better calibrate the AI strength and have a more accurate understanding of their own performance.

The AI improvements are fantastic, and this feels like one of the final pieces needed to make single player racing even more convincing.

Thank you Reiza for continuing to push AI development forward!

 

Imola 88:
AI loves to attack the high curbs in "Variante Alta". Formula cars can get into trouble that way, because they completely loose contact to the ground.
Maybe it is because they use a similar line as in the 01/05 versions, where the curbs are flat and can be run over easily?

 

hello guys.
i am too lazy top make video cuts, but here is one obvious AI issue you can easily mention

AI 100-102%
Track: Spa modern
Condition: Dry
Cars: Fia GT 2005 (Lister, Pizza, Aston etc)
Issue: Ai goes through Eau Rouge full throttle, but its quite impossible to make by yourself (at least on default setup), and irl im pretty sure its impossible on that cars too

Thank you for your attention

 

An interesting commentary about pack racing and AI here...at time stamp 20:17 (won't let me embed the time stamp).

 

As far as I know, in dry conditions the AI only use soft tyres.
Is this true, or did I just get wrong info from somewhere?
If this info is true, is there a timeline when this will be worked on?
I am just curios.

Regarding the issue with AI vs AI overtakes, I was thinking about doing races and uploading examples of AI failing to overtake each other in situations, where I feel that they should've succeded in doing so, if I come across them.

Can someone from the dev team tell me if you would want more of these examples or do you guys already have enough data on this, where additional videos are not needed.
I know that this issue was already recognized, but that's about it.

 

Version: 1.6.9.91
Car / Track: Formula Classic G4- Silverstone 91 (Champ mode)
AI Strength: 105%
Track Position: Everywhere
AI Aggression: Med
Session Distance: 50%
Weather: All Conditions
Player Tyre: Soft Slick
AI Tyre: NA
Session Type: Race Champ mode 50%
Notes: Ai Race Pace is off its tits compared to quali pace everywhere else we're able to run 105% no drama... @Silverstone 91 to get similar performance we had to drop to 96-97
this only seemed to affect race pace not quali pace

 

The recent update has improved the AI significantly. Bravo Team Reiza.

Two areas are still needing improvement. Qualifying, cars on hot laps often get stuck behind cars on out laps and fail to set representative times in the session, particularly with short session times and/or large grids. AI on out/in laps are extremely ignorant, not conceding the racing line to the player or other AI on hot laps. Easily verified no video required!

The other is pit entry, AI can be easily outpaced. Particularly observable at higher skill levels where they carry poor speed though bends/chicanes on entry and often break early seemingly engaging the pit limiter too early. Le Mans 24hr and Bathurst are good examples. At Bathurst they are even more timid under the safety car. Also when rejoining the race track under the safety car after pitting, always at every track, cut the pit exit line to rejoin the racing line immediately.

The new scalars for power/weight/drag/downforce setup/setup randomness have added new variability in the AI and is a very welcome addition. No doubt the planned breaking/traction scalars will add to the opportunities for overtaking amongst the AI. Will the fuel management skill also be added for non oval circuits as previously stated? I feel this is a must for the endurance and F1 content. It would also be welcome to have the tyre management skill have a greater effect, not only affecting lap time but also wear rate to add variability to pit stop timings.

 

Agree with all your points, qualifying issues are my biggest bugbear.