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Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Renato Simioni, Feb 1, 2021.

  1. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Free speech matters AMS2 Club Member

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    Yeah Sebring T1 in just about every class I've tried does that weird wiggle spin.
     
  2. Al_Pesto

    Al_Pesto New Member

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    Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my lengthy message. I really appreciate that! Without further ado, let me come to the point (it's late over here, zzzz :D):

    In regard to video number one: I think we may have different opinions. Maybe that's the limit given the environment of the game engine or the limits of programming resources, and I can accept that. However, in racing, there is always the possibility that a car slows down a tiny bit unexpectedly, which the AI here handled superbly. It didn't have problems adjusting to my speed and braking appropriately, as you can see, but decided to go for an inappropriate overtaking move, leaving the track entirely, only to rejoin the track and hit me in the right rear. I kept my pace and my position well over a couple of laps without any overtaking by either me or the AI. That is actually the bit I love most about racing: the struggle to get close to the car in front over dozens of laps, only to finally make that one overtaking maneuver. That is why I enjoy racing in the midfield a lot...

    Concerning the second video: What stood out to me was you saying, "That is not right or ideal; it is just how it is." That is exactly why I posted this, hoping that the way it is now will be improved in the future. In all of these videos, I was matching the race pace. Reducing the AI strength would result in me being faster than them and then, over the course of a race, just pulling away from them.

    The third video is entirely AI vs. AI; sorry for not making that clear in my original post. It highlights the bugged AI well, and these issues correlate with those in videos one and two.

    Now, after writing all this, I feel you may have just talked me into driving a couple of laps on AMS2 and trying out the low-aggression setting :D.

    I really hope work will be put into this, and I hope it gets resolved. Thank you again, and cheers!
     
  3. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    Since videos are worth more than words @TomLehockySVK ;)





    (videos are unlisted BTW, it can be shared in the wild but aren´t really meant to be promotional material so keep that in mind).
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2026 at 1:33 AM
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  4. Ricky Richards

    Ricky Richards Member

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    Good that this is being worked on.

    In the second video it seems like you can exploit him by using your own slipstream to attract him off the racing line going in to a corner (e.g. into Ascari or Parabolica). You get back to the outside in time but he remains on the inside, even though no pass is possible. They need to give up on the slipstream and get back on the racing line before the corner.
     
  5. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    Just so you can have some glimmer of hope from this exchange Pesto :) there has been one idea that has popped over the last couple of days and which we could (and probably will) do for V1.7.X...

    Typically I am resistant to offering too many in-game AI configurations options, as just like with FFB options they almost invite users to mess with things before they thoroughly understand what they do, and as a result they often end up at a worse place than they would be if they had just left things at reasonably crafted defaults; I know reading this may make power users (who might very well know what they are doing) tear their hair in desperation, but even they are probably aware the majority of users are not like them; we often get a significant percentage of users busting up support channels purely from failing to digest important release notes and in-game help texts... Besides I feel that is often delegating a job that should primarily be done by the developer; you shouldn´t be required to mess with a wall of levers, sliders and buttons in order to get a decent race.

    With that said and aknowledging the wide range of skillsets, approaches and expectations our users have, we ought to try balance that design ethos with a suitable amount of customization options so everyone has enough in hand to adjust the game to their needs in order get a good experience from it, without going so far it becomes overwhelming to use it; some of you will already be aware we plan to offer AI Traction and AI Brake Skill scalars, similar to the AI Wet Skill scalars so that they can adjust the AI performance specifically for corner entry and exit; that should be done in time for V1.7. The other new option we could add to that is splitting the AI Aggression settting, so that AI vs AI is decoupled from AI vs Player with separate options for each - the latter perhaps with a wider range of incremental step to allow users to better fine tune the racing experience and ensure the AI is giving them enough of a margin, and not have that make the AI vs AI racing become too tame (which is what might happen now if you set the overall AI Aggresion to Low).

    This would most likely present you with a setting that could save you from the hits in videos 1 & 2 without necessarily compromising the racing experience around you; do keep in mind it could also make the AI a bit more tentative to race you and occasionally back out even in cases you think it shouldn´t; those choices and compromises will always have to be made so long as run races in which a major speed discrepancy between you and the AI can occur.

    This is why we are always working on that end of things as well as we are aware some AI performance envelope discrepancies still exist in certain classes / tracks / corners / conditions, and those are exacerbated at more extreme AI Skill settings (the bottom 10% or top 5% of the range); the human in the loop likewise isn´t always Mr. Consistency themselves though as much as we all like to think we are :) if for some reason that human driver goes much slower into a corner than the AI expects us to, or opens up a gap that is then suddenly closed that can always be a trigger for trouble the AI can´t quite avoid.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2026 at 3:06 AM
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  6. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    If the AI is close enough for an overtaking routine to start , it will stay on the inside even if the car ahead moves back, both to keep its nose in clean air and to keep the car ahead worried, much like an actual driver would IRL (it wouldn´t tuck back behind the car ahead just as both are going into a hard braking zone); If the AI car behind is not close enough for an overtaking routine to start then it will indeed move back to the racing line.

    It can be gamed too (as one could IRL if no-one in Race Control is giving out penalties for all the zig-zagging) but you´d be surprised how easy it is to get outsmarted by the AI in that scenario if you are looking at your mirrors too much :whistle:

    This of course is a 1-on-1 scenario; the dynamics will be different when there are more cars in the mix as then the AI will also be reacting to the car(s) behind and not just to the one(s) ahead.
     
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  7. Alex Alvim

    Alex Alvim New Member

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    Perfect!!!
     
  8. TomLehockySVK

    TomLehockySVK Well-Known Member

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    That is looking glorious :eek: ! I am sure there will be many further tweaks to it as i would expect the following car to be slightly faster in it's reaction times to get into the draft sooner, but already this is looking magnificent and adds so much to the feeling of AI drivers reacting to each other's presence on track in realistic way.
     
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  9. andy_east123

    andy_east123 Active Member

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    @Renato Simioni
    It's clear that different governing bodies around the world (and sometimes within the same country) have different rulings and wordings for overtaking.
    Some good examples provided by @Al_Pesto in the post below:
    Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

    In the AMS2-verse, what would be the rules that we (and the AI) should be abiding and adjudicating by?
    Would you be willing to have this officially written down and understood (maybe have it added to the 1st post of this thread), this would really help us to judge and raise issues as we find them and feel they contravene the rules as Reiza intended.
    I would hope that this would mean we could more reliably and objectively police ourselves, and then you'd hopefully save some of your time longer term with only needing to get involved with the genuine cases where the AI have operated outside of your expectations.

    All the best
    Andy
     
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  10. Rodger Davies

    Rodger Davies Well-Known Member

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    @Renato Simioni nothing constructive to add from me, but just a thanks for engaging with the thread, us grumblers and taking the time to showcase and implement the improvements.
     
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