Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

Trying to squeeze into any legitimate gap is literally the definition of racing, not an error. What aggression level are you using? Is it at every track in every corner? Are you able to generally keep pace with the AI at the Strength level you have set?

 

No theres someting wrong somewhere. When I say gap, I dont mean a car width.

If you leave a 2cm gap they try steaming through even though their car is 2m wide.

Agression level doenst seem to effect this Low, med, makes no odds.

I generally race at 110. Which is super comfortable.

Ive no logs, but it happens at every tarck ive raced at since the last round of updates.

It wasnt like this before. Such a shame.

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Ive just been doing abit of testing.
After a few short races I believe its connected to the AI error setting. I didnt realise you could set it to 1/2 and off.

I put the AI at 120 too, (which is more my level if im being serious) and the same thing happens. The bigger the AI error number, the more likely the AI will kill you.

Kinda makes sense, but I dont believe it was like this before. Ive run races at x5 to spice things up in the past an never been killed from behind.

x0.5 might be the sweet spot - whats everybody else running? Standard?

 

How can I use the AI settings of one month/two months ago?
I haven't been able to finish any race since last update due to AI divebombing after I have already turned in
I read about the suggestion of driving more defensively, but honestly it's stil excessive..

 

IMO, as someone who watches IMSA, GTWC, IGTC, and other chaotic GT and endurance races, I think these “wild” AIs are really good and realistic. I've seen pro drivers like Estre, Catsburg, Farfus, and others divebomb into gaps with virtually zero space and make moves that end up taking out other cars many times.

I've also seen plenty of clips on here where people claim the AI took them out. But from my perspective, most of the time, it's the players who are being too careless around their opponents. They drive as if they're in an F1 qualifying session, sticking to the usual out-in-out racing line. It's Racing 101: racing and qualifying are two different things. You also need to know when to hold the middle of the track a little longer before braking to shut down an opponent's passing attempt on the approach to a corner or in a heavy braking zone. Moves like middle-out-in are part of racecraft, too.

Just watch GTWC at Portimão this weekend (Verstappen will racing), or look up Leclerc vs. Pérez in Suzuka in 2022. It's F1, sure, but the footage is easy to find and illustrates the point well. Leclerc's tiny move in every 8 seconds are very useful.

I feel sorry for Reiza. They're doing such a good job developing the game, yet some people are claiming they're taking the wrong approach.

 

As mentioned previously it would be less of an issue if the AI backed off upon contact or didn't seem to have the mass of a Tiger Tank.

In the real world if a pro driver takes out the opponent going for a gap that wasn't really feasible they have both the potential for damage and penalties as a disincentive to do that. In sIm racing you don't have that racing AI.

We can go back to the cliches that if you don't go for a gap you're not a racing driver, but in that case the old "In order to finish first, first you have to finish" should also apply.

I run, 106ish AI, medium aggression and 0.5 on AI mistakes. I don't mind the AI having a bit of a go at me but they are rarely the ones to suffer the consequences. We know they are not running the same physics model as us and that probably factors into this.

IMHO taking a look at how each car reacts after an impact and if the contact was more often recoverable (you're not going backwards or run miles off the track) it would help the situation and lessen the frustration.

 

Guys, I'm seeing lots of talk and very few videos.
It has been said before that if you wan the AI to improve then videos and settings need to be shown.

 

When you set the AI to MAX....

 

we are not pro drivers nor do we have the full senses of IRL

 

Well, that guy can't be a very good driver, and his car seemed to weigh 5x more than the guy he hit.

On a serious note, the issue of the AI not backing off AFTER contact has been made is one I have raised myself and I believe is by far the most serious grievance. Please include videos of that happening whenever possible. It has increased and decreased somewhat as the updates have evolved, but if it is still happening to you frequently, then thanks for reporting and please provide video (and settings in case it is related to some of those)

The discussion of the AI Mistakes setting was interesting--in case it is having a bigger impact than expected.

 

I've done a few races since this advice. Usually defending when within 0.75 of a second and/or when it's clear the AI has a run on me (depending on the gap). I've found the advice to be sound. The only incidents I can see on replays are mostly of my own making.

 

So I have at long last been trying to race against the AIs with 120 skill level. It works so well and can nicely match them as well as race hard without problems which is lovely. But the issues with the AIs having at advantages and disadvantages on certain tracks are still noticeable. The Nurburgring 24H 2025 is an example I mentioned about and hoping it will be looked into. I will share some more issues at other circuits I hope will be ironed out.

 

Version 1.6.9.96.3436
Adelaide '88
Aggression: Medium
Skill: 120
Traction Scalar: 0.98
Brake Scalar: 1.12
Mistakes: Standard
Custom AI File

Full details for race here

Code:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wyfo0clZlCQ&t=390s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wyfo0clZlCQ&t=3207s

Similar to my previous post with the BMW E46 GTR, but this time, collision box anomalies do not appear to be a factor. The behaviour of the AI is strikingly similar though.
Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

I should caveat this with the example below is a multi-class environment of cars with very similar pace and character. It also uses a custom AI file where the Power and Weight scalers of the AI Car have been tweaked to balance performance out further. The player car is totally standard while the AI Audi in question has less power (0.92) and more weight (1.08).

In the time stamped link below, we have a further example of the AI car lunging into a non-existent gap from an unreasonable distance back.
Contact is made with their front corner just reaching the back of my rear wheel. At the point contact is made, they can be seen to actually turn the opposite direction to the corner making the issue even worse for the player.
This kind of move/mistake would be fine if it happened once in a while... but it's happening regularly across different classes and different circuits. As a player, the only way to prevent it is to overly exaggerate your defensive positioning. Granted, if the car behind is that close to you, sometimes this positioning is required, but in the current AI form, you have to take this position even when the car behind is outside of a reasonable and realistic distance behind.

Prior to the last updates the AI was very much on the friendly side, too friendly/accommodating really. The current AI has gone a bit too far the other way, in my opinion. I feel the truth is somewhere in the middle, and probably closer to the current AI version than the previous one. I feel that if you are able to prevent this lunging behaviour that will be a great step.

Incident review here:

Code:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wyfo0clZlCQ&t=3207s

Full live-stream here:

All the best
Andy

 

I totally agree with you. As I report here An excellent AI, but with a flaw that makes AMS2 unplayable to me that AI behavior makes AMS2 totally unplayable. It was a more occasional problem during first 3-4 years of AMS2 development, but in the last installments is a constant.

 

Let's agree to disagree.

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Again writing from very late at night zzz , hence I’ll keep it short. Ironically, I’m very happy with the recent AI changes. Something that seems to work quite well for me is setting the aggression setting to LOW, brake scalar to max (1.5?), and traction to below 1.0 (I think around 0.8).

They brake super late, as do I usually, which makes overtaking hard, and they don’t seem to want to squeeze themselves into every gap that could - potentially, theoretically, with a lot of wishful thinking - exist. It’s not like the nerve-wracking attacks from AI have completely stopped, but they are far more manageable and far less frequent. In my typical full-length 90s F1 races, I get maybe one incident, and it’s usually much less dramatic than before. I appreciate the new AI behavior where they move out of the way a bit in order to prevent accidents. They don’t always seem to do it, which would not be realistic, but it feels like they don’t purposely (or rarely) TRY to hit you, like they did before.

Not sure what your experiences are. For me, I’m happy, and now my biggest worry is that whatever bliss this is bringing me will be undone in the next update.

And to give feedback to Renato and the crew: I am very, very happy with the added settings for AI, and I want to encourage you to move in this direction. I think it's the only possible solution to make AI better or - as some would say - make it truly work, considering the amount of vastly different content that the game has. A "one size fits all" AI is flat-out unrealistic given the significant differences in race styles, tracks, and car characteristics. I think this is what the past few years have taught us.



Again, thank you so much for how it is now. Maybe I'll get to upload a full-length race soon to highlight what I mean. There are super nice and intense "dogfight" situations over the course of multiple laps, as well as meditative stints trying to shrink the 19-second gap to 1st place by putting down a perfect performance.

Cheers!

 

You don't have to agree, but your comment encouraged me to add one word ("legitimate") to my original post that was in my brain, but not on the page. I was not trying to promote recklessness (in real racing or in AMS 2). But being assertive, bordering on aggressive, is what wins races (and wins in pretty much any sport).

 

It depends, right now in this game aggressiveness only pays if you're the AI...if their cars reacted to contacts as the player car does, it would be very different.
I understand that cannot be changed right now, but that's already an inbalance we need to consider.
On top of that, now with an overaggressive AI, the number of those "at the limit" contacts where ai physics has an advantage, has more than doubled.
Basically, there was a known issue, and the new AI calibration has exposed the issue even more making it more serious instead of mitigating it.

 

Yes, this looks very much like the classic AMS2 pit maneuver, a constant nuisance since I first got into this game a couple of years ago. In my opinion, it shouldn't happen, ever - no excuse. Yuji Ide got kicked out of F1 for this.

Anyway, have you tried lowering the aggression settings (→ set to LOW)?

 

It's the AI swerving all over the place looking for different lines that gets me, nearly unplayable!