Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

In real life, open wheelers completely lost control when rushing over those extremely dangerous high curbs and there were some terrible accidents like the one of Rubens Barrichello in Imola 94, where he missed the line, went over the curb and was thrown into the fence.

 

This young man tried to take part in the training during the whole session but couldn't make it, just back and forth.
Reiza, where do you send your AI driver for their racing licence?

Nürburgring Gesamtstrecke '71

 

Apart from playing against the AI, I also like to watch simulated races. After testing version 1.5.3, there is an improvement in the AI with the human. But it still happens especially when one does a normal race, without stops, that the first one acts as a train and it is impossible for him to distance himself from whoever precedes him if something does not happen in the first lap, pairs form and in all of them it happens. something similar, but in the case of the first they try to overcome it in almost all the corners, no matter how aggressive it may be. There is always a tendency to discount time. Similar to Rfactor when one uses AI Limiter at 1 but in this case it happens with the group that is fighting only. If in the first lap it happens that he moves away 1 second due to the fights, this does not happen, there he is released.
I also notice that it is like the cars are very close to the ground and practically do not slide.
Probe Stock Car at Interlagos (Difficulty 100, Normal Aggressiveness), M1 at Kyalami (Difficulty 100, Normal Aggressiveness), GT3 at Silverstone (Difficulty 95, Low Aggressiveness). In no case did the first move away, always the second constantly looking for him.
I hope they can correct this, as in AMS 1, without a doubt the best in terms of AI pace on the market.
If you need a video I can make it to show you.

 

... and his little brother as well

 

Yes, the main culprit IMHO for the AI 2-3 car pack racing is the brake boost the AI get when within 1 second behind a similarly skilled AI. They always get very close under braking, and because the AI skill performance mostly affects their cornering speed only, the time they lose on the corners is gained back with the boost they get with the super brakes, that then creates the pack racing.


Its getting better though, before they would be actually glued to the back of the car in front almost everywhere, now it's only on the heavy breaking zones.

 

True to tradition, I continue the yearly cycle of reinstalling the game after each update to see if the countless issues that have been documented here have been resolved and its safe to say, nothing has really changed.

The AI are still fundamentally flawed that no amount of polishing will fix.

 

If you think it can’t be fixed, why download it?

 

What modern sim has unflawed AI in your opinion?

 

None of them do, and I understand that will always be the case but at least with iRacing or rFactor 2 AI, it is somewhat enjoyable. They have excellent race craft, awareness, and the multi-class logic is probably the best in the business for navigating through slower cars. Not to mention the motion in terms of how the cars move, how they react based on their physics parameters (given that they are AI).

With AMS2, the AI are very robotic and lack fluidity. They always snap to racing lines, unnecessarily weave and behave very erratically for no reason. They always get stuck together and cannot overtake, and even if they do attempt to overtake, it is normally done poorly and results in the car aggressively going off track (in which they suffer no impact from the grass/mud). Then the game turns into a rally simulator because of how much dirt is on the road because the Ai consistently drive over mud/grass.

Game has been in development for 4 years and the AI are still just as poor as they were in the Madness engine when it was first taken on.

 

Because I saw several lines of changes relating to the AI and takes me about 20 seconds to download the game on my 1GB connection. Not much time was wasted.

 

AI still brakes AFTER the apex of slow corners in front of player instead of accelerating (before the finally switch to rocket mode out of nothing).

The also do not respect any rules on their in- and outlap and do anything to destroy the lap of a fast car.

 

I think you are overly focusing on the negatives in AMS2, so I doubt my points will matter much with you, but will present them anyway.

Though some of what you wrote is true, like the AI overtaking ability (which has gotten better but is indeed lacking) and their animation (which is inherent with the Madness Engine) while very unnatural when the AI goes over big kerbs and bumps, doesn't really look bad most of the time.

I disagree completely in that Rfactor2 (can't speak for Iracing) AI has better awareness, I have lost count of how many times the AI has rear ended me with the GT3's, which is new content by the way. Or how they can push you off track and completely ignore you. In AMS2 on the other hand I can have excellent wheel to wheel fights and if there is a collision most of the times it's a natural racing incident.

AMS2 AI is much more dynamic in their behavior, how they can do their mistakes, their mechanical failures and the overall flow of a real race is better represented in AMS2 than RF2.

It's not perfect, but it's not nearly as flawed as you make it out to be and no where near how it was with PC1&2. So comparing them to how they behaved when PC1 came out is very bad hyperbole.

And finally the game is still in development and the improvements can be seen, if Reiza stop development and leave the AI as is, then I would definitely get the pitchforks and riot. But as I am seeing the improvement first hand I will cut them some slack.

 

RF2 AI got worse since v1133 in terms of punting/ramming.

 

After testing version 1.5.3 for about 100 hours, the AI improved a lot compared to the previous version. But note that they always form groups, mostly of 2, and they tend to be inseparable throughout the race. I decided to watch a race from the monitor to better analyze the AI. And indeed in several races that I saw with different categories the same thing happened, groups of 2 and constantly surpassing each other. In the first position they surpass themselves more than in the groups of 2 that form behind. In short races without pit stops it is even more noticeable. Try different levels, from 100 to 110 and all aggressions. In all cases the same thing happened. My question is if you have any plans or if you are trying to improve this aspect. In AMS 1 they managed to make a very free AI in terms of rhythms, which was very realistic in that aspect, there were real races, they could be closed or not.

 

Issue: Race against AI in which only a few of them use wet tires. But those ai guys do have the performance as if they were on slicks. No difference to the ai guys on slicks noticeableMcLaren MP 4/5 / Montreal

• AI Strength setting:107
  
• Corner (if issue is corner specific): entire Track
  
• AI Aggression setting: high
  
• Session Distance: 15 laps
  
• Weather when the issue was observed: foggy with slightly wet surface
  
• Player Tyre: Slicks
  
• AI Tyre (if known to be different from player): Ca. on 95% slicks, 5% on wets
  
• Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): Race
• Raceday 10th of June 1990, 2pm
• Historic weather
• Gamemode: Championship

 

Reiza, please fix this behaviour, AI overtaking off the track with all their might and regardlessly.
Happened not for the first time.

You see car 200 beside me half off track, approaching guard rails

it tries to go left where there is no free space but me and hits me on my rear wheel.

Race over
Why not breaking? Why overtake at any costs without awareness of other cars.

Sorry I was ...

 

I have some quick reports on oval (testing with Montanas this time):


Track tests:
- As said here, Fontana is unraceable do to AI pace completely different to Human's. Also AI difficulty is too off (high) wrt road racing (And believe me, I a better simracing in ovals than in road, I know what I am doing). This is not a big deal anyways.

- Indy seems pretty good. Good lines, probably they are faster than in road too. Not perfect, but the best overall.

- In Daytona is ok in pace. However they don't know how to draft. They attack too much (High aggression, to be fair) loosing time. Moreover, when they do not attack, they tap brakes before rear ending the front car, where they should just lift (or even push, but that is perhaps too much at this point).

This Daytona behavior is pretty common in any oval track apparently. but track dynamics hide the issue or even make it almost irrelevant in other sites. In a banked super speedway, since drafting is so prevalent, they have MANY opportunities to do both behaviors.

As I said these reports are "quick", first impressions after a while without doing ovals. I will be doing some long races next week cause I want to have a better taste of oval state. Probably a couple of small championships with 50 lap races or so, with an open wheel and a tintop.

 

Did you try Jacarepagua Oval and Gateway? It would be interesting. I can't test myself...

 

Not today, but I will. They are usually less problematic since they are a bit more "road-course-like".

Edit: Now I did it in Jacarepaguá (again, not the deep test I have planned to do later, just a 25 lap race with a scheduled yellow in the middle).

They are very good, it was great. I think you can gain some time on them in T4, but it also could be that I am just a bit slow at T1. I am at my gf's house with the lap and a joystick, and I am not @Dicra (sorry for the pointless mention, wanted to give you the compliment). So I will test it later next week with the setup where I am reliable before doing a proper report. In any case, if they are slow it is by a very little. They are in a very good spot.

EDIT: About the small discrepancies I am talking, I am thinking that when we run against another human, sometimes we are faster at some points and they are faster in others. If AI is perfect for me, perhaps they are faster in T4 and slower in T1 for other player! This is why I think at some point there should be more than one type of AI bot per track, like some of them having the tendency to do an open enter to over-prioritize the exit. They have parameters now but I seems it is not enough.

 

Prefer to double post instead of nth edit.

Same test at Gateway, 25 laps with scheduled caution, mandatory stop, Copa Montana. In track, this is one of the best experiences I have had in AI oval racing, including iRacing/papyrus games. Even considering I find putting montanas in an oval is quite gimmicky. I even enjoyed the P2P, though I think it should be disabled in oval races (it still gives some play, mixed feelings about it).

There are some quirks: I understand if they stop before the yellow, it is actually a wise strategy. But some of them are pitting under green just after the caution period. This happens also in road courses and I reported before. Also the restarts should have them more packed, the reason I think is the yellow is too short and this should not happen with a more realistic race length since to my knowledge, cautions are longer. So not an issue at all.