Reaction to Ermin's Video

I don't agree with this, but can understand why some people do.

AMS2 was always a long term project with a years long development roadmap, and Reiza have been clear about this from the beginning. It says so on the AMS2 website, their social media, development updates etc.
And being only a year in to this roadmap, I don't think its fair to compare it to sims that are further along or completely finished.

Having said that, I think Reiza did make a mistake announcing the 'Version 1.0 release' a year ago. It was done probably, to justify the increase in price and bring in much needed revenue - but it immediately opened the door to criticism for 'releasing a game that still has issues and needs improvement'.

In a long term project like AMS2, labels like 'Early Access' and 'Version 1.0' are arbitrary, but can mislead people if they are not aware of the broader plans, with some negative outcomes.

 

Once place I disagree with both Ermin and Steelcast is on default setups. In the last few months AMS2 has [for me] gotten to where I feel like I can take the default setup for any car and it will very driveable. A couple of spring/ARB tweaks and I feel like I'm pretty well set.

Now that may not be a perfectly-tuned setup that's going to win me races against Nemesis69, but it gets me to where I can comfortably race the car.

Now, obviously that doesn't mean certain things aren't hard. It's hard to get the throttle touch right on cars with massive horsepower and no traction control. It's harder to corner in cars without aero downforce. But setup doesn't really eliminate those fundamentals (although it of course helps one deal with them).

So, this is one obvious area where the game is much better than it was on Jan 1st, IMO.

 

One other point--I much prefer the approach of sims like AMS2 with a wide variety of cars and tracks than the narrow approach of something like ACC that has one kind of car and a small number of tracks. I hope the trend will be toward sims like AMS2, Raceroom, rFactor2 etc. as opposed to ACC, F1, and Nascar Heat.

 

Ermin seemed very positive about the game five months ago:

 

Firstly I’ll preface my opinion with the fact I have nothing against Ermin, I think he generally comes across quite well and his work is top notch. For me where the issues come in are, in my opinion, the obvious herd mentality which I believe are view/click driven and the use of hyperbole to drive opinions as facts for added effect.

Some of the points he made were perfectly salient, others were clearly false....or at least mistaken due to a lack of experience and knowledge of the game as it currently stands. I don’t know enough about the various engines to comment on this aspect but PC2 clearly had a significantly negative impact on the perception of the Madness engine.

It’s a shame, YouTube has many creators who start with some interesting, fun and passionate content delivered with integrity but all too often this gets eroded as subscribers increase and monetisation begins. For some this is an organic process, for others it appears to be the target. Either way it’s lead me to switch off from several over the years.

Hopefully he’s willing to keep an eye on AMS2 and be open to its progression. We’re still quite early on in the journey and I have no doubt whatsoever that any gap, perceived or real, will close significantly within the course of Reiza’s development.

Anyway, a nice rebuttal video. Calm yet passionate...and nice to put a face to the voice.

 

He is very positive on likes, views and subs. That is it. He doesn't care or really think about the impact of what he is saying on a small team of developers who have being working throughout a pandemic which has impacted everyone on the globe one way or another.

If you don't like this youtuber and don't want to support him, do not share, click or interact in any way with him.

 

Indeed, I was posting the video to highlight how he seems to flip-flop on his opinions to drive content.

The outro section of the video I linked has a very different (positive) tone to the latest one.

 

Yes i agree that default set ups are far better these days.
i don’t tend to change much at all outside of Arb and brake .
There’s two reasons for this . i’ve found a regular default lobby in my prime time slot that’s very enjoyable.( ARJ Defaults) , So have to be able to know how the car behaves in default and i also like to compare my Time in TT mode vs other default to see where i’m at.

And second reason is i just don’t have the time available to experiment and do long runs in either practice or league races.

 

Indeed, I was posting the video to highlight how he seems to flip-flop on his opinions to drive content.

The outro section of the video I linked has a very different (positive) tone to the latest one.

 

Reaction to Ermin's Video
Have I wasted my money and my time, many, many hundreds of hrs? NO
Has it become better ? Yes
Still stuff to fix? Yes but I can wait, they listen and fix even if longer than expected for some things
Could we all make a video to slate stuff? Yes
Could we all make a video to praise what we like? Yes
Have I had good online races? Yes 95% online use and daily,
Netcode np here.
So Ermin wont put me off regardless. Even when I agree with some points and strongly disagree with other points.
His Loss
Have fun

 

Maybe Ermin ascribes to 'any news is good news'. I was surprised when he made a video on AMS2 again. I am sure he only did it for clicks.

Now seriously: "they've taken the handling model to the next level' done in a video of praise over 20 mins. In 15 mins he basically panned it 1 year later. Not believing it. I drove it back then too and it drove like it was on rails. "closer to rfactor" he said. Hmm, yes as its on rails. I am sure Rfactor2 is conforming to its tire model as a primary. This is why you can rig the rest and its still incredible! The new models capable within the madness engine given enough development time they do/can do as is being proven, are better, hands down. Its like freedom in motion; a few kinks left to iron out. I do not know how much this description lines up - but in those other sims you 'fall into' the driving line and the push-back on the wheel happens; then IF you hit the curve/turn and angle those tyres just right you get the advantage of grip, while using brake to arrive at the needed speed. In AMS2 its a little bit more like you make your own driving line and everything is in flux around you. So I see it as having higher potential or more accurate movement. No wonder the VR people like it so much. I was thinking that when I learnt from him actually, maybe, or lead dev, the replay system did not record each little increment. I think old games are on the replay level. They are designed to look good for camera's or show as a proof of concept that sim racing is legit AND if you watch his 'does it compare' video , you watch and it does compare, it looks the most legit... (all those devs and designers of all those sims should commended) - I think AMS2 and that madness engine are designed to 'feel' good. They are not a proof of concept of simming on modern machines which can compute this level of detail - thats assumed, its doing more with its higher fidelity. I remember looking at pre 2010 sims, and they were essentially such. Unable to replicate the design of the universe enough.

I'm pretty sure anyway this was the intent of purpose of the madness engine. Beyond eye candy. Its also decently extensible.

Well I see it actually struck a nerve in the community - a raw neve but it was struck nonetheless. The thing is I don't dislike the fellow or his video making skills - and he was taken down the other day by a relative unknown over AC, and now by steelcast, but the conceit of the video was not long in the discovering. If it didn't ring at least a little true (but still a fair bit off base and out of context and time period) no one would be discussing it - and so it did generate debate which is really good, as such video's are often designed to do, and in media etc if you travel those circles, debate is a good thing - discourse is real and you can help shape it. But in the end I am not going to choose between Rfactor 2, raceroom, AC and ACC, ermin/anyone - i probably want to play them all and I like them all. They're fun. Even f1 2019 sure. It doesn't need to replicate the Ferrarai down to the last bolt to make the grade. We are adults and we can jump in a car, go buy a motorbike again and jump down the track, do it in a car if you like - so many options. You can get a feel for it. So I do not want to only play the best game - and I think Ermin just has now for some reason the wrong kind of barometer about gaming in general.

I think we all chose enjoyment at least in part about the game, and this is why we get something out of it. I don't question how 'real' doom is, either. I don't! I do like the demonic art and all that and its a fun game; and I do not expect to see any demons materialise in front of me or on Mars any time soon. I do not play it enough but I understand its fun.

Because this was unfortunately Ermin's worst video. Had to say. It didn't really serve a purpose other than to pan AMS2 and that was not always on point. I wonder if it was just sitting there pre Christmas/new year and he thought better of it back then.

Edit: looking back in his vids he does 1 year ago wolcen lords of Mayhem? Is he a RPG type? got a lot of views there.

Before that just a couple hundred views. Got a bit of traction with AMS2. Pans AMS2 after panning project cars 3 and high views. Interesting.

Video: Automobilista 2 does it compare to the best vids in the world.

I see people are upset at the video recently - actually that one I saw from him before I had bought AMS2 - and its inclusion of bathurst was a main reason for me getting it ok, so there's that - but I saw the thumbnail and decided to buy more sim games. I was racing 92's Grand Prix from Microprose ages and ages ago. I had f1 2017, 18, 19, dirt 1, 2, 4 and dirt rally. And I bought AMS2 in among another 4 sims iirc. Including Pcars 2.

The thumbnail of the car moving a bit to the right then a bit of body roll to the left. I was thinking yes really should take a look at that game engine.

I felt the Pcars 3 video was a bit below the belt. I do not want to air personal grievance's - I mean anyone can do a not so good video. But I felt he panned a game too hard when its clearly not meant to be a sim game. AMS2 is not even meant to be finished.

And this is literally my only beef with the whole thing - I just wonder why it has to be a contest of 1, 2, 3. Isn't a person going to play them all anyway? This is true in the sim racing world where people spend 1500 or 2k or more on setups. They want to make use of them so they will buy several titles.

Hey, I do not mind flipping on f1 2019 and no you won't find me buying 20 or 21, I already own 3. Its not a 'sim' as such, but its fun. What you do with your wheel is your own business I am just saying I like to make use of the thing.

I just felt the video was a little snobbish or elitist. I am not sure, this genre does not have the luxury of throwing titles under the bus. I thought that was one of the guys tennants - but considering he was thinking about not doing the channel is it any wonder he just flipped on a dime like this? He kind of threw caution and reasoned debate to the wind.

Whilst I gave some analysis of the video on the video page itself I do not think he is a demeaning person... its a game after all - which cuts both ways - I am more forgiving of games. AMS2 can be engrossing. One has to be in the mood to do sim racing in the first place. F1 19 sold what a few million copies? Popularity does not equate perfection. Its fun. I have played the 19 version a total of 7 hours.

AMS2 300ish. My fiancee played about 60 of those I suppose/ or her swapping with me, maybe 80 or so and sometimes you cannot get her off the computer when driving.

I am just one of those people who knows what I wish for - if I made a mistake in wishing for something then thats that. I am sure AMS2 was good then bad then good. But the video beat down was actually too much. It did not resonate with people who play AMS2. I know he said it in the nicest possible way, but the video did him no favors.

The extent to which, its a video with a lot of views, and our opinions are our own, the most we can say and do is simply disagree with him. For example I do not agree with a lot he says about the other sims either - I don't mind watching people sim race a bit and he drives ok. As a talking head he does alright. But its not gospel.

I actually think AMS2 gives me the sense of when I was on motorbike a lot. There's niggles in the road, there's uncertainty's, there's a bit of adrenaline and focus - you need the skill in the moment and the skills you need are constantly in flux from your repertoire.
I race with the helmet in the cockpit almost exclusively and I like the sound of the other cars in that mode. I like how the cars deteriorate much like in f1 2019 etc, and how the environment progresses and I like how you can overshoot and undershoot things. Sometimes I feel games like ACC (and this is not necessarily a bad thing) make it like doom, for example. They know you can beat the level as its designed that way; so they know that if you accelerate and turn at the right time you will 'do the course', just like in Rfactor 2 - you kind of 'work out the mod' against a backdrop of exceptional physics to a certain degree - in AMS2 its not like that so much even if you work out the car - its a more flexible system, or going from 2d chess to 3d.

Not trying to debase those games.

 

Ermin's video is just clickbait but I do question the development priorities a bit. Things like real weather / historic weather are fine but how many people really care about them. I really enjoy the driving in AMS2 but I find myself spending more time in other sims lately just because I want a decent MP experience. Netcode is way better than it used to be but where are safety ratings, official servers, regularly scheduled races, better server admin facilities and fixes for common MP bugs or any idea when these things might happen?

 

It won't put you off, nor me, nor the others who already appreciate the goodness in the game, but it could potentially put off:

• new customers from buying it who might actually find it's a lot better than Ermin's video suggests;
• people who have bought it but initially didn't like it much, so stopped playing it, and now may not bother trying it again based on Ermin's dismissal of the improvements that have been made (and those significant features that are still to come Automobilista 2 FAQ);

neither of which help Reiza nor the existing userbase hoping for more heavily populated online lobbies.

I said it in a reply on Ermin's Youtube video that I think we should be grateful we still have developers like Reiza who develop games based on their passion and desire to deliver a quality product, rather than focusing on ways of extracting as much money out of customers for as little effort as possible. There are many games (particularly sport franchises) where you are charged full price every year for a "new" game, when all you're getting is effectively a patched version of last year's game with updated rosters, not to mention the cynical micro-transactions that have become increasingly commonplace to eek more money out of customers .

It would be preferable that, rather than making videos criticising AMS2, particularly when his opinions are questionable (well done to Steelcast for your reaction video), Ermin focusses on something else.

 

Agreed wholeheartedly Thats the shame of its type. The main reason I even commented here in fact.
I said this before with u tubers vids being discussed on various threads and there merits and also lack of it.
till RS shut them down/commented
I think its a fundamental that it affects sales of any product. It will put off, its not a potential imo. It will just be an unknown number. It becomes more than just an 'opinion'. We all buy things or not based on reviews be it a gpu,tv or sim/wheel etc. sad fact of life that some tubers run as a business based on such and are sometimes very inaccurate. This is why more than anything I said above.

QUOTE="Maser V6, post: 128938, member: 16156"]Could we all make a video to praise what we like? Yes[/QUOTE]

YES yes yes indeed.

Outnumber them with more accurate proof of why your here.
Enjoyment I get is enough to keep me here in AMS2
Just my Opinion of course!!

 

Great response @steelreserv - truth had to be told. Some people are just stuck trying to knock down anything based on comparisons to best hand picked features of other titles but forgetting about bigger picture.

I'm glad that there's so much variety in classes, I prefer this from having one or two complete classes. So praised AC took that model and that's never even a question. It allows trying so many different things. Not every game needs to focus on a single series.

There was that point about ACC having that major 5-point tire contact update and lack of it in AMS2. You don't bring that sort of update if you don't need to So given cars are not immediately spinning after hitting the kerb means there's no need for such update and will never happen.

I've cherry picked couple of counterpoints but overall I was nodding to your responses.

It's such a shame the previous title on Madness engine was PC2 as people just shove it in the simcade box and stop caring. Even worse when they are wrongly bragging about it and spreading false info. Does that count as fake news?

Keep up the good work and see you on your next video!