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Reiza March 2020 Development Update - An Update on AMS2 Release

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Renato Simioni, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. Smiggie

    Smiggie Member

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    Honestly I am a bit on the fences... and i would like some clarifications from Renato about the phisics development of the cars.

    I was a backer for AMS and AMS2, I waited today for a more polished version of the sim. All the day I tested back to back some cars on AMS and AMS2 to understand the differences.

    Is the Stock car one of the most developed cars of AMS2? Because it drives like AMS, but the ffb feels also better! Really it's a joy! Drove a 1.09.6xx @Guapore with default setup and I was super satisfied!

    I can't say the same thing about other combos... The Old Opala it's so much understeery on corner exit, nothing like the one in AMS that is so much nice to drive on the limit. The Cup Trucks in AMS2 are understeery like a pig on corner entry and then snap oversteer at light throttle application (no turbo spool simulated?). The Turbo Gen 1 F1 car, no problem at all managing full throttle at full boost in 2nd gear at corner exit. Caterhams feel not good at all, jumping all the time from under to oversteer, nothing compared to the neutral balance of AMS ones, also with a dead steering wheel on the centre, you have to turn the wheel more than x° to have the car do something...

    Back to the Stock car this time with rain, tried the "Storm" setting... I selected soft slicks with purpose, grip on the racing line was SUPER (are you kidding me??), then lap after lap with more water on the track it was better (less grip), but way too much grip for a slick tire on a wet track with a storm, I mean, I could lap 10-11secs slower than fully dry easly without crash just paying attention at braking marks and puddles, that's not right.

    The potential is here, on the physics side AMS it's 100% refined, I expect AMS2 to be 115, 120%, but at the moment we are 25, 30%. I don't want to be rude but the experience I had with the stock car on the dry (105%) for me is what saved AMS2 form the recycle bin and refound. The expectation here is really high, I really want the best for Reiza but some things atm are depressing.

    I hope to read a post from Renato (maybe inside Reiza 51) only about physics, to understand the direction of development, what atm it's wrong, what will be addressed soon, what will never be addressed due to the engine limitations. Graphic side it's already a masterpieace, textures need a lot more dedication (iRacing docet), but the physics... guys there is no joke, physics need to be on the top.
     
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  2. Adam Kalani

    Adam Kalani New Member

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    Is it possible to get refund?
     
  3. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    You can refund from Steam as long as you're under 2 hours of play time.
     
  4. Adam Kalani

    Adam Kalani New Member

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    Thanks
     
  5. Tim_R27

    Tim_R27 New Member

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    I've found a few issues, I know it's still early access and have every confidence that this can/will be sorted out. When you go off track onto the sand/grass it's like an ice rink, it's near impossible to get back on the track and I don't want to press 'reset' every time. The car contact is a bit dramatic, big knocks rather than the cars scrubbing against one another. Real cars will often make contact and crumple a bit, rub against each other, it's part of racing. The oversteer/wheel spin on the exit of corners is over the top (I've not gone into setups yet but still.....) and one thing that I've heard about which unfortunately is true, the brakes!! They lock up even when only pressing the brake down ~50% which makes every corner too edgy rather than being a fun experience, it's all or nothing every time :( The cars don't really feel planted to the track, they're too keen to slide about. I'd be happy with this control IF the brakes were sorted out (main thing) then secondly the exit of corners. The open wheel cars are controllable but not the normal style cars, they're unplayable for me and I'm not usually too bad a racer.
    Anyway, I can see A LOT of potential for this game, there's a lot of good things there so hopefully the next few weeks/month+ this will be improved?!
     
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  6. XTRMNTR2K

    XTRMNTR2K Member Reiza Backer

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    I understand where you're coming from. Tried some Stock Car + Rain variant combos on Cascavel last night, and I believe I understand where part of the issue comes from.

    First off, at the start of a session the track is green and dry. This means that water has to build up for it to truly matter. Under light rain conditions, slicks seem to be a lot faster than wet tires, at least for several laps. There's probably a point where both are similar when the rain goes on for long enough, but I didn't test that long. IMHO that is okay since the Stock Car doesn't have intermediates available (which would most likely be the best choice for continuous light rain conditions).

    Under medium rain conditions the slick was okay for a few minutes until the track got too wet. After around 3 or 4 laps (maximum) it got to a point where driving on slicks became too uncomfortable so I had to switch to wets. Considering the dry state of the track at session start this seems okay to me. As a side effect, it makes the appearance of rain during a race slightly less punishing - especially on longer tracks - since it gives players a decent time window to schedule a pit stop to change tires.

    To be honest I believe I didn't try running slicks during a thunderstorm - based on my previous test run under medium rain I didn't think it was necessary. That being said, thunderstorm feels okay to me on wet tires - it gets considerably worse over time, up to the point where a real race would probably be stopped. IMHO that is exactly the point of these conditions, I just wish there was a way the game could 'detect' such a point (i.e. based on cars crashing/leaving the track combined with large amounts of water standing on the track per square meter) and actually abort or suspend a race until it conditions improve.

    (On a side note: Aquaplaning caused by driving through standing water was always THE biggest issue with PCARS2 in my opinion, because the vehicle would suddenly and violently change direction and there was no way to avoid this behavior under certain circumstances. It seems Reiza have a good grip on the issue, as I found I could avoid trouble by keeping the car straight when doing so. Well done!)

    The second large aspect that leads to the perception of under-pronounced rain effects is the discrepancy between the visuals and the actual state of the track. Even light rain looks somewhat wetter - both in terms of rain falling down as well as the track surface - than it actually is. This is especially true during the first few minutes of rain.

    The same is true for medium rain and thunderstorms to some extent, at least during the initial phase when the track is initially dry.

    tl;dr IMHO the effects of a wet track are not as under-pronounced as it may seem, though I clearly get why it is perceived as such.


    Now what I'm really curious about is how the AI will deal with rain... Hopefully it won't be as much of an alien as it is in PCARS2 compared to the player (due to the difference in physics, especially).


    EDIT:

    I agree about most of your points.

    The brake issue seems to be that most cars have too much brake pressure by default. This may be true to their real life counterparts, but if that's the case this is probably because you can 'feel' the brake much better in a real race car than with most sim racing pedals.

    As for the behavior when going off the track, I concur. Even when sliding along the grass at low speeds in dry conditions it seems impossible to get the car to slow down by applying any amount of brakes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
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  7. DaVeX

    DaVeX AMSUnofficial Staff Reiza Backer

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    Seems you need to calibrate your wheel and pedals ingame, give a look to it or run calibration again.
     
  8. Tim_R27

    Tim_R27 New Member

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    yeah tbh I wasn't sure I'd calibrated my wheel right but it's the pedals really, I don't understand how I could callibrate them incorrectly. I tried braking (after callibration) in different ways but the tyres screech and the wheels lock up if I brake for longer than say half a second. I'll try again tonight but atm I'm gutted, I was really looking forward to this game but besides the openwheel cars I don't seem to be able to drive anything and even they're a handful. I'm not an alien racer but I am def. capable yet this game is getting the better of me.
    I had been playing ACC which is such a joy to drive, i know this is early access AND there's so many more cars but I would say this game has a real good feel on the accelerator, so that's a big thumbs up. Also a lot of new tracks to me which is really interesting and some cool cars. I'm really hoping this becomes my new go to game..... :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
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  9. XTRMNTR2K

    XTRMNTR2K Member Reiza Backer

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    When I first tried the Stock Car I was kinda shocked as well. Turns out the brake pressure is at a whopping 98% by default if I remember correctly. Trying lowering it to around 85% and you'll see it becomes much more manageable. :)
     
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  10. Tim_R27

    Tim_R27 New Member

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    Great, fingers crossed that'll do it. I'm meant to be working right now ;) so I can't try it out till this evening but I will try. The other thing I struggle with is the exit of corners. Admittidly I would normally have a small amout of TCS depending on the car (none on some) but again especially with the cars (non-open wheel) I apply the tiniest amount of throttle and it spins! Is there a setting for this too? I pretty much just jumped straight in last night rather than playing with the settings (more fool me) but I haven't found other games to be so touchy
     
  11. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence CrimsonCringeLord Reiza Backer

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    I was rescuing the F-Ultimate several times from the graveltrap right now o_O
    Try less throttle application.
    Yes. Formula cars also get LAUNCHED in the air very heavily, when wheels have contact. There is catapulting going on in reality, so this is believeable, but the height, a car gets launched, not so much.
    Calibrate your brakes and reduce brake pressure in the setup menu.

    Also: Learn to apply brakes correctly. I see many guys in Multiplayer right now, doing it quite too late, don't trailing off too much and so locking up the wheels, shifting while this process is going on and so on... (if there is some shenanigans with some hardware configurations, this could mean a lot, but like i've said, i'm not encountering any issues here)

    Apply more Diff ramp angle on the power setting and be smooth on throttle^^
    Also a bit more positive toe on the rear helps.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
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  12. XTRMNTR2K

    XTRMNTR2K Member Reiza Backer

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    This may be in part related to the bumpiness of the track surface and the sensitivity of some cars/setups. When I spent most of last night hot lapping the Stock Car around Cascavel I noticed how certain corner exits and entries were especially bumpy; this combined with the properties of the Stock Car can easily unsettle the car during any of these points, quickly leading to oversteer.

    Then there's also the fuel map to consider. By default the engine mapping is set to 'rich' (100%), which is more aggressive than normal (95%) or lean (90%). This on top of an engine with lots of torque really requires a much more careful foot on the throttle than you'd expect, especially compared to some other sims.

    Out of interest, are there any particular spots on certain tracks you are struggling with? And with which cars? If possible I'd like to try those for myself to see how it feels. :)
     
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  13. Tim_R27

    Tim_R27 New Member

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    @CrimsonEminence When off track i'm using the throttle as little as possible and trying higher gears to eliminate the amout of wheel spin, I think it was a bit better in 3rd gear but it's also the moment at which I'm going off track - sliding for miles!
    Regarding braking, I do use trail braking and try not to slam on the brakes but I would be shifting down when braking but I believe this is the normal thing to do. Btw I'm not saying i'm doing in perfectly at all, I would really love to learn how to perfect my driving as this really is one thing above all that I'm interested in. I get such a good feeling through pulling off a perfect lap, never mind racing other opponents :) which I do also love. I'll look up some vids to see if I can improve my style a bit, maybe there's something I'm missing. I'll decrease the amount of brake pressue, this would make sense and if sorted would change the game completely for me :) I want to love this game!
    I'm not great at setups, I'd be keen to learn so again will spend some time on this. I just need to find the right advice so your mention of "
    Apply more Diff ramp angle on the power setting and be smooth on throttle.
    Also a bit more positive toe on the rear helps." for the exit of corners.....I do try to be smooth on the throttle that's for sure but i'll try the other bits of advice there, thanks :)

    @XTRMNTR2K I had seen about the fuel map but had thought I should be able to manage to drive with it set as 'rich' regardless. Maybe a bit more practice and setting it lower to start with?! Interesting point about the bumpyness of the track, I hadn't really considered this. I was driving at Imola when trying one of the stock cars and struggling. I normally drive gt3/4 cars so thought they'd be a little similar (not quite as good handling) but I can't even manage 2 corners (not sure whether to laugh or cry). I can try and get some more detais to you about tracks and cars but I can't remember which ones off the top of my head now other than what's mentioned above.
    I don't know it all, i'm not great at setups but I'm usually a decent (fair) racer and would love to improve. Maybe it is my fault that i'm struggling after all? I'm dead keen to improve though so i'll put some effort in and with a bit of guidance maybe I can get through this
     
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  14. F1Aussie

    F1Aussie Active Member

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    I had a drive with the MCR I think it was tonight and had the same type of issues, instant brake lockups, I did drop pressure to 90 but still same issue. The other thing that was very odd that I dont think I have experienced before is when turning in and exiting corners the front wheels grip hard and I get oversteer then a fraction of a second later no grip and understeer then oversteer again and then understeer again. It is very unusual to say the least.
    I can see a lot of potential in this though.
     
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  15. Tim_R27

    Tim_R27 New Member

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    Yes I felt like I was soo far from getting the drive right that it must be the game however I have seen vids and then the guys on here saying it's fine so......doubting myself now :) Argh, The fact you @F1Aussie lowered the pressure and are still having issues with the brakes doesn't sound great for me. I'll try myself but I feel a bit lost in it.
    Anyone got any detailed advice or am I just useless, haha? I've watched Driver61 vids on youtube though i've not looked for braking vids (if there are any) as I've never had an issue before
     
  16. XTRMNTR2K

    XTRMNTR2K Member Reiza Backer

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    Don't give up yet! While I certainly haven't tried every vehicle yet I understand that many are not nearly finished yet, so some oddities may be related to that fact.

    The Puma GTB for instance has the crazy tendency to lock the wheels when releasing the brake - it's perfectly stable under braking, but as soon as I let go of the brake pedal (even when doing so smoothly) it just goes bonkers.

    So yeah, it's not just you. :D
     
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  17. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence CrimsonCringeLord Reiza Backer

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    Gravel traps are pretty bad for catching a car, that's flying off track because of their bumpyness, but pretty good, to keep you glued, when standing. Watch some cars in real life being trapped there, it is very hard, to get out there. I find it better than AMS1, but i think, this is just personal preference.
    Slam them, but not tooo hard, it's okay to have some initial bite, it lets you brake later. Also shifting down is right and normal, but not so much, if it already locks too hard, than it could lead to a snap or to ploughing all over the place.
    Underrotation=good, total locking=bad. That's kind of, what i've learned and it works pretty good so far :D
    Pleasure!
    Diff power ramp angle increase gives you a more open differential, which delivers stability and less snappyness (corner inside wheel will spin first) but is costy for time. Diff coast ramp angle increase opens the diff more under braking and could make the car unstable, so it's applied the opposite for stability, often.^^
     
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  18. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence CrimsonCringeLord Reiza Backer

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    Do you get shift lock/drag torque by any chance? It could help to blip that baby harder, to overcome it. :D
     
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  19. F1Aussie

    F1Aussie Active Member

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    Dont know if it is settings or physics ATM but I am sure it will get sorted. I dont seem to recall this happening in the super V8 the other night though.
     
  20. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor TCLF Reiza Backer

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    I also am kind of glad that off-track punishes properly. Also the grass, even though it's a tad slippy, when my team mate that drives IRL as well saw someone get 2 wheels in the grass and spin, his reaction was a very happy "that looked so natural and realistic!"

    It should be punishing. In every other sim I hit it and I'm not bothered at all, in AMS2 though, I will be bissing my pants when going 2 wheels on the grass or even on it. (grass is not grippy with slicks FYI :p)
     
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